Good Lord, I lost to the AI

[Austrian Strategist]

Originally posted by Hiram Sedai:

Could anyone explain, in terms a layman might understand, what a MRL looks like? Anyone? Please?

The answer is: No.

OK, jokes aside: The reason why this can´t be explained is that some people don´t have an MLR, either because they are incompetent OR because they are using an unusual strategy.

Second, everybody´s MLR looks different, depending on playstyle. Some use 80% of their pts on MLR, some only 40.

If you don´t know what 'an MLR looks like', this is ok; no one does.

Edit: If you don´t expect anything, no one will be able to surprise you with anything. Always think like a Newbie. If you are a Newbie, this is an advantage.

[ June 13, 2002, 02:29 PM: Message edited by: Austrian Strategist ]

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by Fionn:

I'm not sure about the 2nd bit of your post ( them counting as dead for end-game calculations etc) btu I am SURE the first bit is wrong.

The lowering of global morale when squads are split is an intentional thing. It is a feature NOT a bug. You may disagree with the feature but it isn't a bug.

I don't mind the morale loss either, I agree it is a valuable feature.

The victory point thing is definitivly true, though. It is easy to check by ceasefiring a hotseat with no losses and one side split squads. I mailed BTS but got no reply. This should be fixed for CMBB, maybe you can pull Madmatt to review his mailbox?

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by Hiram Sedai:

Could anyone explain, in terms a layman might understand, what a MRL looks like? Anyone? Please?

Well, at least for CMBO I would define it as that point where the defender creates the strongest of possibly several lines where life is being made hard for the attacker. It will not be identifyable by units sitting there, it is more a function of what weapons have effective range to that zone.

Maybe this abstraction helps: if you think of the defender killzones of pink bubbles and draw them on the map, you will most often find that somewhere several killzones form a continuous line of pink bubbles. This usually happens because the defender has to use the terrain as it is and he cannot leave one approach route uncovered. If you break enough units who's weapons contribute to bubbles in this line you crack the defense.

This explanation is not compatible with the usual use of the word, usually people name the positions of the units the MLR. But I find the thinking around their weapon effect (not their living place) more useful. It makes it easier to realize where it is and how to break it. And as a starting point to discover it you can usually take the antipersonal minefields

[imported_Hiram Sedai]

Originally posted by redwolf:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Hiram Sedai:

Could anyone explain, in terms a layman might understand, what a MRL looks like? Anyone? Please?

Well, at least for CMBO I would define it as that point where the defender creates the strongest of possibly several lines where life is being made hard for the attacker. It will not be identifyable by units sitting there, it is more a function of what weapons have effective range to that zone.

Maybe this abstraction helps: if you think of the defender killzones of pink bubbles and draw them on the map, you will most often find that somewhere several killzones form a continuous line of pink bubbles. This usually happens because the defender has to use the terrain as it is and he cannot leave one approach route uncovered. If you break enough units who's weapons contribute to bubbles in this line you crack the defense.

This explanation is not compatible with the usual use of the word, usually people name the positions of the units the MLR. But I find the thinking around their weapon effect (not their living place) more useful. It makes it easier to realize where it is and how to break it. And as a starting point to discover it you can usually take the antipersonal minefields </font>

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by Hiram Sedai:

I do tend to think of the living place, or the space that the defender is occupying as opposed to weapon ranges. I guess I need to change that misconception on my part.

Wrong, right, misconception... I guess it is more a case of "whatever works for you".

The thinking in terms of terrain and weapons covering it instead of units sitting in certain terrain has one clear advantage. You are less likely to stumble into some "living-place" line, successfully overwhelming the inhibitants, only to be shot up by a tank covering the area.

So, can a "MLR" be on the side of a map in anticipation of an attack there?

Yes, absolutely. The defender set up on the sides, only shooting to the inside is a perfectly sane thing to do given the right circumstances. Minefields reinforced by some unit's fire preventing entry into the setup zone from front are required. It may even be especially effective, because both tanks and infantry are more vulnerable from the sides.

It is also good to be near the map edges. It allows you to shoot up the attacker until you have enough points to overrule the flag value and then retreat from the map.

The map must play nice, though, you must not have one of the north-south lines exposed to long-range observation from the attacker's zone outside sight and range of your other side's units.

I notice that most of my opponents stack their troops near the largest flag and I can sort of circumvent them by purposely staying away from that point for a while.

In real life, would you plant a flag saying "I am here" where your strongest unit bunch is?

[CombinedArms]

Originally posted by Hiram Sedai:

Could anyone explain, in terms a layman might understand, what a MRL looks like? Anyone? Please?

(Edit note: My daugher interrupted me while I was writing this and Redwolf posted his answer before I did. What follows doesn't refer to his post and hasn't been edited.)

I'm not an expert on this, by any means, but I'm going to take a shot at explaining it, just to see if I'm beginning to get it right. Then the experts can correct me where I'm wrong.

Let's start with the FSE:

The Forward Screening Element are the forces in front of your MLR, meant to find out what's coming at you and from where. It's in good points of observation and (preferably) with covered lines of retreat. In a sizeable battle, it would be more than a couple of sharpshooters--a force big enough to deal a blow to enemy recon elements, and entice the attacker to commit his main force. Having done that, the FSE would fall back through cover and melt into the MLR.

The MLR would be your main defensive line, built on strong terrain features and having most of your forces. You know it's there when you hit something that will take most of your force to move: several platoons of infantry, dug in MGs, ATGs, AFVs, etc.

There also might be a rear area behind the MLR with mortars, transport vehicles, and maybe a reserve force including infantry and AFVs that can be rushed to meet the main attack.

Well, that's my stab at this. Please let me know how I did.

[ June 13, 2002, 10:02 PM: Message edited by: CombinedArms ]

[imported_Hiram Sedai]

That was perfect, CombinedArms. Thank you.