Sound contacts in CMBB

[Graaf Spee]

One thing in CMBO that I find a little irritating is how enemy units go from sound contact to tank?/infantry to M4?/infantrysquad to fully identified and then it stays that way no matter what happens. Did that make any sense? Probably not. I'll give an example instead:

When you first notice that the enemy has tanks it's usually one sound contact that moves around the map somewhere close to the actual tabks postion. You know that there is a tank there because you can hear it coming and can take some precautions. But after you have seen it there won't be any more sound contacts from that tank. Let's say your evil opponent first uses it on your left flank. Long(?) before you actually can see it you have the sound cntact. But after that he backs away and cunningly moves it to your right flank behind a ridge. There you won't have any indication that it's going to show up until you actually see it since the 'tank marker' is still on your left flank where you last saw it. Now if he had another tank that was coming up on the right you would (probably) see the sound contact first and be warned.

I'm not sure if it's possible, with the current code, to make an already identified tank to give away sound contacts again but it sure would be nice

/Kristian

[Bullethead]

Good point. But to do it, you'd have to be careful so as not to give away too much FOW.

Using your example, after the tank disappears on the left you have a "last seen here" marker. This marker instantly goes away the moment the tank reappears on the right. If the game was changed so the tank again gave a sound contact before appearing on the right, I assume the "last seen" marker would disappear then as well. And I know many players would notice this--I sure look for the disappearance of markers as "new" units appear, as I try to figure out what the enemy has. Thus, when the new sound contact showed up on the right, the player would immediately know that tank is no longer lurking in ambush on his left and be able to act accordingly.

So if this is going to be changed, IMHO it would have to be done like this:

1. Tank approaching on the left makes sound contact.

2. Tank appears on left.

3. Tank retreats on left, leaving "last seen here" marker.

4. Tank makes sound contact as it retreats from left flank, causing "last seen here" marker to vanish. If you could hear the tank coming, you can hear it going away.

5. As tank moves across enemy rear from flank to flank, assume it moves far enough back that you can't hear it. So now you know nothing about its location. It could still be over on the left, just too far back to hear, or it could be redeploying. OTOH, if it stays close to the front, you should have a sound contact moving from flank to flank.

6. Tank reappears on your right, progressing from sound contact to spotted. You have no idea whether this is the same or a different tank if during redeployment it was far enough back.

[RMC]

Tricky issue, but that wasn't attracted me to this thread topic. I though maybe someone else was getting annoyed at the way the sound contact can drive right up on you but the actual vehicle can suddenly appear to your side.

This probably doesn't happen much on open maps, but I was playing a kind of Ardennes scenario made by a friend and on the narrow roads, the romulans were decloaking well away from where sensors indicated they were.

[Bullethead]

You only get a sound contact if you can't see the vehicle. And as I understand it, a sound contact is always within a 50m radius of the vehicle's actual location. So the only way to have a sound contact drive into your positions is if the vehicle can get within 50-100m of you and you still not have an LOS.

This has happened to me a lot but only at night, in fog, or in thick woods or towns. It's actually not much of a problem in woods or towns because there are only certain paths that the vehicle can be using. Hence, you usually have a very good idea of where it really is in such cases and can set AT ambushes accordingly.

It's only when there are open approaches to my position, like I'm in the edge of the woods overlooking a field, that the vehicle can appear at a large angle from where its sound contact was. But in that case, the only way to have a very short LOS across open ground is at night or in bad weather, or both. In which case the vehicle probably won't see my lurking troops anyway. So next turn, when I know where it is for sure, I can still ambush it.

[JonS]

Incidentally, the orientation and direction of travel for sound contacts seems to be very accurate also, so from that you can also sometimes figure out where the vehicle is (ie, line of fire, or moving down a road).

[Louie the Toad]

Dear RMC,

Regarding a sound countact in the forest: Frankly, the ghost marker could show up anywhere and still be modeled correctly.

A case in point. I was playing as the British in an Arnhem Bridge Operation game. We had been fighting the Germans for the bridge both day and night. Now it was a night turn. Suddenly the sound and the ghost marker of an enemy tank appears across the river about 70 meters down from the bridge. The sound marker begins crossing the water ! Being somewhat familiar with the history of the battle I could not recall any amphibious action taking place. Just before the marker reaches the British side it disappears and a halftrack appears over on the bridge.

Think of the situation. Night, a large bridge with arches, buildings near the river --- all of that would cause echos and false identification of sounds. It was well done.

"It must have been the wind" ... Toad

[RMC]

Nope. They were Romulans. I saw their pointy ears when they bailed out.

[Splash]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Bullethead:

Good point. But to do it, you'd have to be careful so as not to give away too much FOW.

Using your example, after the tank disappears on the left you have a "last seen here" marker. This marker instantly goes away the moment the tank reappears on the right. If the game was changed so the tank again gave a sound contact before appearing on the right, I assume the "last seen" marker would disappear then as well. And I know many players would notice this--I sure look for the disappearance of markers as "new" units appear, as I try to figure out what the enemy has. Thus, when the new sound contact showed up on the right, the player would immediately know that tank is no longer lurking in ambush on his left and be able to act accordingly.

So if this is going to be changed, IMHO it would have to be done like this:

1. Tank approaching on the left makes sound contact.

2. Tank appears on left.

3. Tank retreats on left, leaving "last seen here" marker.

4. Tank makes sound contact as it retreats from left flank, causing "last seen here" marker to vanish. If you could hear the tank coming, you can hear it going away.

<hr></blockquote>

Sorry to cut the quote short but if you wanted this to work you have to have the possibility of hearing more tanks then there actually are.

i.e. after the tank has moved away and you begin to hear something from the opposite flank the other marker should remain until it is positively identified as the same tank.

[Bullethead]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Splash:

Sorry to cut the quote short but if you wanted this to work you have to have the possibility of hearing more tanks then there actually are.

i.e. after the tank has moved away and you begin to hear something from the opposite flank the other marker should remain until it is positively identified as the same tank.<hr></blockquote>

Naw, you only get the sound contact while you're actually hearing sounds. When it moves out of earshot, it and all other spotting things tied to that unit disappear. So you have NOTHING to go on unless you keep on hearing it moving around in the enemy rear, but let's assume you don't.

So now, you don't know. Is that tank I hear on the other flank the same tank I heard drive away before? Or are there tanks on both flanks? You can't be sure