German 50mm mortars ?

[Agentorange]

I noticed in the support weapons section for the german forces that 50mm mortars are available... yet when you buy stuff from the infantry menu eg infantry Co, HW platoon etc they never appear. 81mm yes, sometimes 120mm but never 50mm.

So my question is: how were they employed? as special mortar units?, only with certain formations or what? Logically going by the size you'd think they would perform the same function as the 2" and 60mm mortars for the allies, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

[WWB]

They were holdovers from early war days, about in normandy but not too standard. They were pretty much a waste, range was too short and not enough umph.

WWB

[Stalin's Organ]

The 50mm was originally issued 2 to each infantry company I think - but was replaced by the 81mm which was a substantially better weapon.

It's role WAS exactly the same as the 2"/60mm allied mortars - local HE and smoke support, but the 81mm was better at it.

[Stalin's Organ]

The 50mm was originally issued 2 to each infantry company I think - but was replaced by the 81mm which was a substantially better weapon.

It's role WAS exactly the same as the 2"/60mm allied mortars - local HE and smoke support, but the 81mm was better at it.

[Bruno Weiss]

local HE and smoke support

Then hows come they ain't got none?

[Stalin's Organ]

well 'cos the CMBO ppl never asked ME what ammo loadout they should carry of course!!

Basically there's no need for them to anyway - that function is taken over by the 81's that do get smoke.

As an aside a well known figure-rule write reckoned that the British 2" mortar was almost exclusively used for smoke and should have the ammo proportions reversed (ie only a few or NO HE rounds).

Has anyone else heard of this usage in WW2??

[Agentorange]

so, in terms of employment, they're most likely to turn up in second class formations eg:stomach battalians etc or possibly units that are refitting etc and have been given them where nothing else was available etc ?

[JonS]

Originally posted by Stalin's Organ:

...As an aside a well known figure-rule write reckoned that the British 2" mortar was almost exclusively used for smoke and should have the ammo proportions reversed (ie only a few or NO HE rounds).

Has anyone else heard of this usage in WW2??

From one of Salt's Snippets:

WO 233/32 American 60mm mortar

This memo, dated 22 Nov 1944, states that smoke for the 60mm mortar had not yet been developed.

It also states that the 2" mortar is issued only with smoke ammo within the Airborne Division, except for RE sub-units.

It is also stated that, as at 13 June 1944, 3" mortar star shell was not yet in production.

The opinion that neutralising effect with HE is obtained by "number of bangs" rather than size is repeated.

Regards

JonS

[ July 18, 2002, 03:11 AM: Message edited by: JonS ]

[Sabotai]

I had a game where I took out two Stugs with 2" mortars - I love those things. Their little smoke puff is just pitiful BTW.

[platoon_incap_monkey]

My complaint about the mortars is that you cant fire indirect fire...always have to see the target...since when couldnt mortars just fire blind lob shots?

[M Hofbauer]

Originally posted by platoon_incap_monkey:

My complaint about the mortars is that you cant fire indirect fire...always have to see the target...since when couldnt mortars just fire blind lob shots?

they *can* fire indirect. use leader units in command with the mortars to spot for the mortars and the mortars will be able to fire indirectly at anything the commander wil see.

I guess the explanation why they cannot fire anywhere where there is no LOS is that since they don't have the coordinates plotted in and can't observe the effect/impact of their fire, so they wouldn't be able to adjust fire to where you would want them to.