JadamoW Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 A Soviet 82mm Mortar team is stated as having a Transport Class of 3. (7 men, tube + ~40rnds) However, they won't embark on the M3 Scout Car (Transport Class 6). OK. It might make sense that a teeeeeny Scout car wouldn't be able to accomodate the Mortar team. But then, when I could fit 2 X Maxim MG teams (also Tranpsort class 3) each containing 6 men, 1 HMG with wheels and ~75rnds ammo, :confused: :eek: CORRECTION :eek: Only 1 Russian Maxim Team fits into a M3 Scout Car. (In original post I wrote 2 Maxim MG teams could). More observations posted. I concluded that the Scout Car was muuuuch bigger and really should accommodate at least 1 Mortar Team. Has this been logged as a bug anywhere? I did a search and came up with only 1 other related posting. Didn't notice it in the bug list. [ November 13, 2002, 01:25 AM: Message edited by: JadamoW ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 Originally posted by JadamoW: But then, when I could fit 2 X Maxim MG teams (also Tranpsort class 3) each containing 6 men, 1 HMG with wheels and ~75rnds ammo, :confused: In a scout car? That sounds completely wrong. I'm :confused: too. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakalwe Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 Originally posted by Michael emrys: In a scout car? That sounds completely wrong. I'm :confused: too.Well, the M3 (White) Scout Car was not exactly a small vehicle. The name is somewhat misleading, as the official British designation was: "Truck, 15-cwt, 4x4, armoured personnel". Soviets mainly used the vehicle for liaison and as a prime mover. Still, the mortar issue is a bit strange. Maybe the fact that the later Soviet 82mm mortars had wheels and could be towed has something to do with this. Zak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 Originally posted by Zakalwe: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael emrys: In a scout car? That sounds completely wrong. I'm :confused: too.Well, the M3 (White) Scout Car was not exactly a small vehicle. The name is somewhat misleading, as the official British designation was: "Truck, 15-cwt, 4x4, armoured personnel".</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakalwe Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 Originally posted by Michael emrys: Are you thinking of the 120mm mortar? That's a whole different ball of wax from the 82mm.IIRC, the later versions of the 82mm BM (41/43?), had wheels and could be towed. Zak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 Originally posted by Zakalwe: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael emrys: Are you thinking of the 120mm mortar? That's a whole different ball of wax from the 82mm.IIRC, the later versions of the 82mm BM (41/43?), had wheels and could be towed.</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wol Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 As I recall the wheels were for dragging it across country by manpower not for vehicular towing like the British 4.2" mortar. It just saved you packing it up and carrying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakalwe Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 Originally posted by Wol: As I recall the wheels were for dragging it across country by manpower not for vehicular towing like the British 4.2" mortar. It just saved you packing it up and carrying it.You may be right, the wheels were quite small. Still, I could swear I have seen a picture of a few 82 mm mortars being towed by a couple of sorry looking horses. Of course, due to CMBB engine limitations, that's neither here nor there concerning the game. (A kingdom for a panje-cart!) Stiil, the scout car issue is a bit puzzling. I think it should easily carry a 82 mm mortar team. Two 6-man MG teams is way too much, though - conjures images of buses overloaded with people, livestock and baggage. Zak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 The mortar team is a 7 man team, is it not? Thus it cannot fit into a vehicle that is only rated to carry a team (like the scout car). Last I looked 2 six man teams/squads will fit into a HT. If there is a bug, it's that you can fit two Maxims in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadamoW Posted November 13, 2002 Author Share Posted November 13, 2002 :eek: CORRECTION :eek: Only 1 Russian Maxim Team fits into a M3 Scout Car. (In original post I wrote 2 Maxim MG teams could). You can pack 2 Maxim teams in an M5 Halftrack. As an aside, you can place only 1 (2 men - Transport Class = 1) team in an M3, be it a PTRD, Tank Hunter, DP LMG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadamoW Posted November 13, 2002 Author Share Posted November 13, 2002 Originally posted by Michael emrys: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JadamoW: But then, when I could fit 2 X Maxim MG teams (also Tranpsort class 3) each containing 6 men, 1 HMG with wheels and ~75rnds ammo, :confused: In a scout car? That sounds completely wrong. I'm :confused: too. Michael</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadamoW Posted November 13, 2002 Author Share Posted November 13, 2002 Originally posted by flamingknives: The mortar team is a 7 man team, is it not? Thus it cannot fit into a vehicle that is only rated to carry a team (like the scout car). Last I looked 2 six man teams/squads will fit into a HT. If there is a bug, it's that you can fit two Maxims in there.I stand corrected. 2 Maxims will fit into a M5 HT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadamoW Posted November 13, 2002 Author Share Posted November 13, 2002 Originally posted by Zakalwe: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael emrys: In a scout car? That sounds completely wrong. I'm :confused: too.Well, the M3 (White) Scout Car was not exactly a small vehicle. The name is somewhat misleading, as the official British designation was: "Truck, 15-cwt, 4x4, armoured personnel". Soviets mainly used the vehicle for liaison and as a prime mover. Still, the mortar issue is a bit strange. Maybe the fact that the later Soviet 82mm mortars had wheels and could be towed has something to do with this. Zak</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 13, 2002 Share Posted November 13, 2002 Originally posted by JadamoW: Interestingly enough, I could only get 1 Tank Hunter Team in an M3 (as large as they are.) Hmmm...time to hit the manual an look up transport class and carrying capacities. It's not as straight forward as it looks.Actually, it may be, but just in a way that isn't entirely realistic. Somebody correct me here if I'm remembering it wrong, but I think the CM distinguishes between teams and HQs (of any size) on the one hand and squads (of any size) on the other. Some vehicles will carry 1 squad or 2 teams and that only (exception: I've noticed that German HTs will carry a squad and a sharpshooter now) while other vehicles will carry only a single team. The actual body count and the space taken by weapons is abstracted out. Thus, it makes perfect sense to us that a halftrack should be able to carry a half-strength squad, a half-strength HQ and a half-strength team all at the same time, but the game engine can't do the math. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted November 13, 2002 Share Posted November 13, 2002 Originally posted by Zakalwe: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael emrys: In a scout car? That sounds completely wrong. I'm :confused: too.Well, the M3 (White) Scout Car was not exactly a small vehicle. The name is somewhat misleading, as the official British designation was: "Truck, 15-cwt, 4x4, armoured personnel".</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakalwe Posted November 13, 2002 Share Posted November 13, 2002 Originally posted by Andreas: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Zakalwe: Well, the M3 (White) Scout Car was not exactly a small vehicle. The name is somewhat misleading, as the official British designation was: "Truck, 15-cwt, 4x4, armoured personnel".Hmm, the one that is standing in Bovington looked awfully small to me.</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted November 13, 2002 Share Posted November 13, 2002 Originally posted by Andreas: Hmm, the one that is standing in Bovington looked awfully small to me.sniff Andreas is name-dropping again, doing his 'AFVs I've had a pint with' routine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted November 13, 2002 Share Posted November 13, 2002 CMBB makes this distinction between units. This is the second time I've posted in this thread, and the fourth time I've posted it on the board, so.... PAY ATTENTION! Units (team or squad) with 6 or fewer members will fit into/onto a vehicle with "team" transport capacity. Alternatively, two such units will fit into/onto a vehicle with "squad" transport capacity Units (team or squad) with 7 or more members will fit into/onto a vehicle with "squad" transport capacity Teams with 2 or fewer men will fit into/onto a "squad" transport alongside a single 7+ man unit. If you don't believe me, check it before refuting it. Note: As the 82mm mortar has a 7 man crew, it does not fit into a "team" transport capacity vehicle Addendum: Transport class is independent of unit size Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadamoW Posted November 14, 2002 Author Share Posted November 14, 2002 Originally posted by flamingknives: CMBB makes this distinction between units. This is the second time I've posted in this thread, and the fourth time I've posted it on the board, so.... sizeThanks for taking the time to post again!It's exactly what I was looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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