Succestion for CMBB if any :)

[spwaw]

How damage an other things are modelled in tanks.

Updates my opinion:

Optics damag, gyrostabilizaizer if any,

(affect shooting accuraty immediatly)

Track hit 4 conditions

(Slow speed or immobilized or could move circle,or do anything:)

Shocked crew bail out,but see later that tank is cabability take control again.

Take control abandond enemy vehicle,if crew are veteran or higher and enemys tank are very common model examble famous T-34 or very common german tank seris PZIII-IV.

Tank offer to infarny sight blocked ability.Very important.i do not no if it already modelled?

Ability to choice what ammunitoin use when shoot.Could save extra special ammunision for extra use:)

In East Front tanks are often frozen and dont move att all.Randomize effect what make few tanks immobiliazed or ability tio move certain timeframe at the begin scenario or campaign?

week ice > Heavy tanks not ability to move over it or brake ice.

Roadbloc,small bildings,trees destroy ability

and ability move other immobilize tanks of corse tank must be very heavy.

Stuck guntower hatch >Always button up.

Low fuel

> fuel indicator what tells how much is there,important watch in long battles,when fast move fuel burning lot of vs normal speed.

1944-45 german had very seriousproblems with fuel service and other thins too ( AMMUNISION example hint:).

Randomize effect begin of scenario or campaign.

Why not Soviet too.

Ability choice where gun pointing when move ahed.

>Then you could move poin to point front panzer front armor right direction and gun is pointing right were you believe enemys are?

Are there any bridgelayer or mineclearing tanks?

When battle has begin you could order tank dig in with example with infarny help.Soviet has that tactics in Kursk battle.

! dont no if there (CMBB) ability destroy bridges with heavu gun, but if no you no the answer

Bersek mode

>crew go mad,shoot every where and whitdraw very fast or not at all.

Bail out fresh tank and then come back.You could mixed same kind tanks crew other tanks.(Do a croup veteran only or better chief.)

Track mark on the ground and dust clouds.Your scout could then see if there are moving heavy things

Supply truck or airplane that could promise more ammunition.

And at the end i want to ask Battlefronts heavy tanks crew members.

Is there posibility that CMBB is sale in finnish store.Not only internet.

Comments please!

[ July 02, 2002, 02:38 AM: Message edited by: spwaw ]

[Soddball]

Posted by SPWAW:

Optics damag, gyrostabilizaizer if any,

(affect shooting accuraty immediatly)

I don't know whether this would be the case in battle, but if damage like this occurred then it would be nice to have it modelled.

Track hit 4 conditions

(Slow speed or immobilized or could move circle,or do anything:)

Same as above.

Tank offer to infarny sight blocked ability.Very important.i do not no if it already modelled?

It isn't currently modelled, but would, again, be nice.

Ability to choice what ammunitoin use when shoot.Could save extra special ammunision for extra use:)

I don't have too many objections to the way ammo is used. True, I've had the occasional tank using smoke on an infantry target when it should have been firing HE, but for anti-tank rounds they use tungsten when they need to and that's fine for me.

week ice > Heavy tanks not ability to move over it or brake ice.

The problem here is "what IS weak ice"? "What IS a heavy tank"? You will get people arguing about the modelling of the KV1 and how it could cross 6 inches of ice:

"Well, I ran some tests driving 8 KV1s across 7.7inches of ice. I have checked the pressure capacity of ice across a lake of size J and it doesn't work." Too fiddly.

Roadbloc,small bildings,trees destroy ability

and ability move other immobilize tanks of corse tank must be very heavy.

A little bit too 'hollywood' really. It would be nice to put tanks and guns in rubble though.

When battle has begin you could order tank dig in with example with infarny help.Soviet has that tactics in Kursk battle.

You can already order "dig-in" for tanks in CMBO.

Bersek mode

>crew go mad,shoot every where and whitdraw very fast or not at all.

I think tanks will have 'morale' in CMBB so this would be modelled, although how I don't know.

I like some of the suggestions, but some are too much like Hollywood war films for me!

[Tero]

Originally posted by Soddball:

The problem here is "what IS weak ice"? "What IS a heavy tank"? You will get people arguing about the modelling of the KV1 and how it could cross 6 inches of ice: "Well, I ran some tests driving 8 KV1s across 7.7inches of ice. I have checked the pressure capacity of ice across a lake of size J and it doesn't work." Too fiddly.

Dynamic ice breaking is out IIRC. So no busting ice with arty to form barriers and/or sink armour and infantry on the ice.

[Soddball]

I think that's a wise move - too much time would be spent tweaking ice thickness and explosive wossname with no firm data to back up the figures.

[Kuma of Finland]

A small sidestep for ice thickness:

I served in Finnish coast forces (Dragsvik). The coast grenaders (somewhat similar to marine corps) have ice patrols on regular basis. Ice patrol is a team/squad advancing with skiis (not ice skates) on ice. In front of the others there is one guy with rope attached to him/her. His/her job is to check the ice thickness with a ice drill. The rope is there in case the guy in front accidentally found the really thin ice... :cool:

With right kind of ice you can go over even with a tank. For example about 5 cm (~2") so called 'steel ice' is enough for a personal car of about one ton weight (although I still wouldn't go there with that thin ice ). But on the other hand, a late spring time ice of 1 meter (~3ft) can break under a walking man.

Now I bet all the readers from nearby polar areas are going to give me lessons about ice and its durability

/kuma

[lcm1947]

Some good ideas above spwaw. I especially like the turrert being able to point the direction that you choose and if not mistaken BF said that this was going to happen. I for one had been asking for this from the beginning and I promised since we were getting that that I wouldn't ever gripe again. Man I hate it when I promise stuff. The minesweeping or bridge laying tank idea is also good and I know there was some discussion about the bridge laying tank getting in the game for small creeks but can't rememeber what the answer was so am hoping to see something like this but doubtful if BF will include it.

[Tero]

Originally posted by Soddball:

I think that's a wise move - too much time would be spent tweaking ice thickness and explosive wossname with no firm data to back up the figures.

There is plenty of firm data around. IIRC BTS said it is actually the actual programming that makes it a virtual impossibility.

HE shells are not what you would normally use to break the ice. You would use AP shots. And this makes nations with coastal arty available stand out as they had the stocks of ordnance needed and the precision needed to make the shells fall in tight enough pattern to make the ice break (as they had practised hitting targets from rowing boat size up at several kilometers).

Granted, even relatively light HE can do the trick, even a 81/82mm mortar round. But what makes it so hard to model is the way barrages are handled in the game engine. To break the ice you need concentrated, preferably TOT barrages. And impact fuses with delay capability. High angle of attack also helps.

This limits the likely armies to be able to use it to participants and sectors in the far north with access to coastal arty, shipping lanes, large bodies of water and ground actions within or near these, ie. the Soviets and the Finns. The Soviets were bottled up in the bottom of the Gulf of Finland from 1941 until the summer of 1944 and the Finnish sector was not very active between early 1942 and the summer of 1944. Further south there were large rivers that froze over but winter actions were generally restricted to firm ground during winter months anyway.

With this in mind I lament the exclusion but I can see their reasoning for not going into it in detail.

[spwaw]

spwaw wrote:

Ability to choice what ammunitoin use when shoot.Could save extra special ammunision for extra use:)

Soddball answer:

I don't have too many objections to the way ammo is used. True, I've had the occasional tank using smoke on an infantry target when it should have been firing HE, but for anti-tank rounds they use tungsten when they need to and that's fine for me.

Spwaw:

CMBO use always first best (if there are choice) AP ammunition againts armoured target whatever is target is and then use second best AP ......

Okay lets say you encoutter M8 greyhound and you have 40AP and 4C ammou.I want use my 40AP ammou store this kind thin armoured vehicle and save 4C to blow up Shermans loop armour:)

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Spwaw wrote.

Roadbloc,small bildings,trees destroy ability

and ability move other immobilize tanks of corse tank must be very heavy.

Soddball answer:

A little bit too 'hollywood' really. It would be nice to put tanks and guns in rubble though.

Spwaw:

In realwar there is happend that immobiliazed tanks has removed with other tanks help.

Little trees crushing under tanks

East front have many wooden buildings and wood not have so strenght material.Heavy tank would simply crushing it and troop inside.

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Spwaw wrote:

When battle has begin you could order tank dig in with example with infarny help.Soviet has that tactics in Kursk battle.

Soddball answer:

You can already order "dig-in" for tanks in CMBO.

Spwaw:

Yes but before battle begins.I mean if you play long battle,you could dig in when batle is goin on

and tanks dig in faster if there is infarny troops nearby.

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Spwaw wrote:

Bersek mode

>crew go mad,shoot every where and whitdraw very fast or not at all.

Soddball answer:

I think tanks will have 'morale' in CMBB so this would be modelled, although how I don't know.

I like some of the suggestions, but some are too much like Hollywood war films for me!

Spwaw:

Realwar mens get mads and craisy.When it happens to tank crew,then they could shoot whatever moving(triggermad:) or stay like do nothing(paralyzaize)

CMBO do a shocked staytment .It is like a paralytzaize.It is good begin.

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Sorry my bad english,but i try wrote so many times that ewerybody understand me,just ask me.

[Andreas]

Originally posted by spwaw:

Spwaw:

Yes but before battle begins.I mean if you play long battle,you could dig in when batle is goin on

and tanks dig in faster if there is infarny troops nearby.

Not particularly realistic.

The Red Army had combat regulations detailing the time needed to dig holes in the ground. A fellow beta tester dug this out from the 1942 infantry combat regulations:

- 1 man Fox hole - 1.0 manhours.

- 2 man LMG pit - 2.0 manhours.

- 1 man sniper pit with camouflage, & overhead cover - 1.5 manhours (Pioner tools).

- 1 meter deep trench, Hvy MG pit, with dug out for crew - 6.0 manhours (Pioneer tools).

- Same trench/pit as above for ATR - 6.0 manhours (Pioneer tools).

- Pit for horse - 8.5 manhours (Pioneer tools).

- Fire position 50mm mortar - 4.6 manhours, with camouflage - 5.0 manhours, with overhead cover for crew - 12.0 manhours. (Pioneer tools).

- 82mm mortar position, with crew pits, ammunition pits, and camouflage - 32.0 manhours (Pioneer tools), 42.8 manhours (entrenching tools), with overhead cover for crew 57.8 manhours. (Pioneer tools).

- 120mm mortar position with crew pit, ammunition pits & camouflage - 37.5 manhours (Pioneer tools), 49.6 manhours (entrenching tools), with overhead cover for ammunition & crew - 59.5 manhours. (Pioneer tools).

- 45mm AT gun position with 360^ field of fire, crew & ammunition pits - 56.0 manhours (Pioneer tools), 74.7 manhours (entrenching tools), with overhead cover cover for crew & ammunition - 75.6 manhours ((Pioneer tools).

- 76mm cannon position with 360^ FOF, crew & ammunition pits - 45.0 manhours (Pioneer tools), 60.0 manhours (entrenching tools), with overhead cover for crew & ammunition - 68.0 manhors(Pioneer tools).

Basicly an Soviet Rifle Co, would be completely dug in in 1 hour, and an entire Rifle Regt dug in completely, camouflaged, with overhead cover, includeing all all supporting arms within 12 hours. No wonder the Germans had such a problem trying to eliminate Soviet bridgeheads.

[spwaw]

Andreas you are absolutly right.I acree with you this.