Artillery

[Matt the Paladin]

I was wondering, what's better to use, Arty spotters or mortars. I prefer the mortars because you don't have to wait several minutes before the attack starts. Arty spotters strike me as useless unless you're attacking a fortified position, because the enemy will almost certainly have moved by the time the artillery begins to fall. It also seems to me that the mortar shells are plenty big for use against infantry, and are a bit more accurate. Arty spotters can hurt tanks more than mortars, but nobody would keep tanks still for so long. (I did it first time I ever played CM...ouch!)

------------------

"I'd rateher die than be whipped."

J.E.B. Stuart

[Chupacabra]

Heavy arty is far more destructive. I find on-board artillery good for supression and smoke, but the heavier stuff is the killer. The time delay just requires a bit of foresight to work around.

------------------

Grand Poobah of the fresh fire of Heh.

[Samhain]

Entirely different beasts, both with excellent uses. On-board mortars require LOS from the mortar team or a commander in radio contact (unless you're using a target reference point and haven't moved the mortars), which generally means more exposure to hostile fire. Arty spotters don't need LOS, so you can hind them in a forest in the middle of nowhere, well away from the fighting. They'll suffer an accuracy and time penalty without LOS though. The heavy arty will blow up whole buildings and devastate large swaths of land, unlike little 81mm mortars. The trick in using it against mobile forces (i.e., not dug in) is to anticipate where they'll be by the time the arty drops.

One thing to bear in mind: arty and mortars are as important for breaking up formations, suppressing, and weakening morale as they are for actually causing casualties. And then, there's the capability of smoke screens for blinding enemies/masking movement.

------------------

Hope you got your things together,

Hope you are quite prepared to die. --CCR

[This message has been edited by Samhain (edited 11-19-2000).]

[Samhain]

One thing I forgot to mention: mortar carriers, like the German HT's (don't recall the model off hand). Those eliminate some of the weaknesses of on-map mortar teams, as they're faster and usually have enough armor to stop small(er) arms fire. Of course, they're magnets for AT rounds

------------------

Hope you got your things together,

Hope you are quite prepared to die. --CCR

[Chupacabra]

I feel that mortar carriers are crippled by their inability to have HQ units spot for them. I see very little point in using them, as HTs need to remain mobile or hidden to survive. Mortar carriers can do neither, and so are doomed to a quick death. This is something I very much hope BTS remedies in CM2, in fact.

------------------

Grand Poobah of the fresh fire of Heh.

[JacMac]

In reality, mortar carriers and 81mm+ mortars on the ground would almost never be involved in front line combat. To me it is ludicrous to move them from any start position unless it is to retreat or simulate some action where they were caught enroute. The "Combat Mission" battlefield at the largest is too small to support mortar carrier advancements.

I like the spotters much better, it's much more realistic (although the spotters should not be limited to a specific size or type of indirect fire). Mortars would direct lay on a target only in an emergency, and it's more likely that they would retreat before they did that.

[Pain]

My opinion is to combinate both. I use the mortar to destroy light vehicles or halftracks, and the arty to kill Infantry in buildings or woods. So I usually (with 2000 points to spend) pick 3 mortars and 2 Arty guys, put them in a good position (top of a large building for example) where I can see the target and wait for the enemy. In most cases I call in the arty strike before I can see the enemy and correct the fire later to the enemy's position.

------------------

War is in my heart

Death is by my side!

[Samhain]

Well, as I said, mortar carriers will die a quick death, as with any light armor, when not used properly. With sufficient cover and/or when the enemy's armor and at assets are handled, these carriers have their uses. Just treat them with the same care as any other light armor. They of course can't pass through all the terrain types that mortar teams can, but they make up for that with speed and light armor protection, letting you get some decent suppressive fire going in a hurry when the need arises.

------------------

Hope you got your things together,

Hope you are quite prepared to die. --CCR

[This message has been edited by Samhain (edited 11-20-2000).]

[Pud]

Is this inability of vehicle mounted morters not utilising leaders as spotters going to be fixed in a future patch? Would be nice.

Pud

[Cybeq]

Why yes, Mr. Pud, it would be nice. I happen to like mortar carriers due to their large ammo supply and mobility. But I would like the ability to have someone spot for them. I keep them in the folds of the terrain way behind my main force. I use them for smoke and for recon by fire. I never bring them out into the open if the way hasn't first been cleared by another armored vehicle. Because of the way I use them and my anal way of protecting them I have rendered their utility somewhat dubious but oh, well. I'm the commander and they'll do it my way! As for FO's: Yea, the delay sucks but if you want the big stuff you get an FO. I use them to level towns. Fun, fun fun.

------------------

"To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence." -Sun Tzu, The Art Of War

[eba]

Onboard mortars and artillery are quick on target if they have a LOS but very vulnerable to counterfire -- since the bad guys also have LOS. Spotters take a little longer to deliver on the target, but they're easier to hide and thus live longer. I generally prefer slower but alive.