Game Experiences with Sherman Smoke Use

[rexford]

I would appreciate hearing from players who have experience firing Sherman smoke, particularly how effective it is and any tips on use.

We've been reading up on Sherman 75mm smoke rounds, and it takes one to two minutes to effectively screen a target and several tanks firing at once to do it (according to field manual). The HC smoke is limited to 850 to 1600 yards effective range, with the shorter range based on damage to projectile as it hits ground at ranges below 850 yards and the higher range limited by muzzle velocity and gun elevation.

The HC smoke round is used by bouncing it in front of the intended range and having it ricochet about 100 to 300 yards before it came to stop. It would seem that the round might bounce a bit to the side of the intended flight path as it ricochets along the ground.

One obvious problem is that the average range estimate on first shots is about 25% in error, so half will be long and useless when one is firing smoke. Some of the shorts will be too short to decrease the Tiger II arc of fire.

I thought smoke would help protect Shermans from King Tigers over open ground, but our initial games resulted in the usual slaughter except that it took longer. Many of the smoke rounds did not seem to land very far in front of the Shermans.

Thanks for helping out.

[ June 22, 2002, 07:15 PM: Message edited by: rexford ]

[dalem]

I hate using smoke tactically because I have read few-to-zero accounts where it was used in that fashion, BUT I have found it a life-saver at times on QB maps. You know, the long pool tables or wide, denuded valleys that the AI generates sometimes that look so awful for attacking on? I'm sure the defender is having his own problems, but when I see those maps I try to lay a strip of smoke between my forces and the likely defense areas to give me a chance to reach first cover. if I have Sherman 75s (and I take 'em as often as I can - I love 'em) then I'll keep them in cover and fire laterally to create or stoke such a screen.

On the rare occasions when I'd opt for a smoke round in a firefight I try to smoke right in front of the opponent AFV/gun itself.

As far as success with either of the above, well, I don't lose all the time.

-dale

[Noba]

I thought smoke would help protect Shermans from King Tigers over open ground, but our initial games resulted in the usual slaughter except that it took longer. Many of the smoke rounds did not seem to land very far in front of the Shermans.

Given the effect I describe below is not from turret dischargers, I have seen that result in a recent QB. The rounds were within 100 metres of the firing sherman and almost immediately effective. This caused the KT and Panthers to "lose interest" in the Sherman as is backed away. This ability to block LOS with one volley is possibly a bit too effective.

I have noted that tanks firing area/smoke often only fire 3 rounds and stop for the turn. I think they lose sight of the aiming mark due to their own smoke.

Noba.

[L.Tankersley]

The vast majority of my experience with Shermans firing smoke is with Shermans firing smoke when I WANT them to fire HE at a single point target like an MG that is holding up my advance.

However, I have recently had occasion to utilize massed direct fire smoke to screen movement. I had a large number of 75mm Shermans basically sitting out in the open in LOS from a bunch of high-quality Tiger tanks on a hill. Range was high, probably 1200-1500 meters. My intent was to skedaddle the Shermans the hell out of the area. I identified some LOS "chokepoints" formed by some patches of woods and other obstructions between the Tigers and my intended route. I then ordered nearly all the Shermans to fire smoke in the general area of these points. I'd say I had 6 or 7 tanks firing at each of 2 points while everyone moved at fast speed for safety. There were a few drastic shorts/longs, but for the most part this resulted in very thick (if relatively small) smokescreens that were sufficient to completely block LOS. On subsequent turns I targeted chokepoints further along my line of movement. It worked pretty well (if you'll accept about 15% losses as "working well" under these circumstances).

[lcm1947]

I've not had very good luck with firing smoke from Sherman's at all. So much in fact that I basically don't even bother trying anymore. Guess I shouldn't give up but my findings are it's always to late or just doesn't work. No smoke that is and yes the smoke graphic's were on. I'll probably try again now that I'm thinking about it due to this post.

[CombinedArms]

Originally posted by lcm1947:

I've not had very good luck with firing smoke from Sherman's at all. So much in fact that I basically don't even bother trying anymore. Guess I shouldn't give up but my findings are it's always to late or just doesn't work. No smoke that is and yes the smoke graphic's were on. I'll probably try again now that I'm thinking about it due to this post.

I'm a bit surprised by this. I've used Sherman smoke extensively since I first started playing the game 18 months ago and, within its parameters, it's always worked fine for me. I tend to allow 30-40 seconds for smoke to form (don't count on it appearing before then, or you'll be dead). It might take more than one Sherman to create a large area of smoke. If you want to transit an area under smoke cover that you're firing on THIS turn, estimate your time of arrival and add pauses to get you there in 30-40 seconds.

In short, you need to anticipate smoke use situations, position your tank in cover to fire the smoke, then move forward with tanks and/or infantry under its cover. You can leapfrog your way forward between cover and smoke this way if you have, say, a platoon of Shermans working as a team.

The Sherm 75 tends to come with 4-12 smoke rounds and, given the Sherm's vulnerability issues, I find myself using them a lot. The Priest and Sherm 105 also have excellent smoke. I wish Fireflies & Cromwells came with smoke and that US 76 AFVs had more smoke. All in all, I'm addicted to tank smoke. Not sure if I'm using it historically, but I'm hooked and can't stop now.

[ June 23, 2002, 10:04 PM: Message edited by: CombinedArms ]

[YankeeDog]

I do use of DF smoke from Shermans or other AFVs fairly often.

I have not yet found firing smoke from a single Sherman to block LOS to a single AFV, AT Gun or Pillbox to be very effective - the smoke coverage is rarely sufficient in my experience to be enough of an LOS impediment.

I find 2-4 Shermans firing smoke simultaneouly to be a very useful maneuver tool in certain types of terrain. I can "plug" the hole, for instance, between two patches of trees to allow transit between the two without exposure to enemy fire, or smoke an intersection before driving across it to protect units from fire coming down the street. In my experience, a single Sherman will fire 3-4 smoke shells in a round of firing, so when I create these small, targeted smoke screens, I am usually using between 6-16 shells. A couple may fall very short or long, but most fall pretty close to target. I have not noticed any drop-off in smoke performance in CM if I am targeting smoke at ranges under 850m. I find this preferable to using off-board artillery smoke because it's (1) faster, and (2) doesn't force me to commit as many of my valuable artillery shells to smoke.

In other words, I am using my smoke rounds prior to direct contact with enemy AFVs to facilate maneuver and increase my chances at gaining superior positioning on my opponent.

I find that this tactic works especially well against AT Guns or slow turreted Axis AFVs (like your Tiger IIs). The smoke screen doesn't have to completely block LOS to be effective, so long as it does though the middle of the 'keyhole' - this way, the Enemy Gun will temporarily lose LOS to my transiting Shermans, and start rotating it's turret back to forward. When the Sherman comes back into LOS at the other side of the screen, if I have it set up right, there won't be enough time for the enemy gun to get a shot lined up before the Shermans into Defilade again.