C & C and Buttoned Up Tanks

[Mick_Oz]

I'm aware that this is a feature and not a bug but is there any way to stop my Russian tank crews (including HQ) from immediately buttoning up as soon as they sight a target and take it under fire (aside from cover armor which may not always be appropriate)? The result is that the entire platoon goes out of C and C... even when in close proximity to each other.

[busboy]

Well, I think the answer is no.

But I believe that you will find that your tank crewmen will only button up only if they are under fire.

[Mick_Oz]

Originally posted by busboy:

Well, I think the answer is no.

But I believe that you will find that your tank crewmen will only button up only if they are under fire.

[Shosties]

The T-34 M40 commander needs to button in order to fire the main gun. He does double duty as the gunner and needs to attend to the optics and controls in the turret.

http://www.wwiivehicles.com/html/ussr/t34.html

http://www.battlefield.ru/map.html

This doesn't get addressed until the three-man turret of the T-34/85 allows a full-time gunner.

[ September 04, 2002, 10:11 PM: Message edited by: Shosties4th ]

[Mick_Oz]

Originally posted by busboy:

Well, I think the answer is no.

But I believe that you will find that your tank crewmen will only button up only if they are under fire.

Oops.. posted without posting so to speak. I guess this is intended to make advancing under fire that much slower with C and C penalties in force... I'm still getting used to the vehicle command hq side of things!

[Mick_Oz]

Originally posted by Shosties4th:

The T-34 M40 commander needs to button in order to fire the main gun. He's does double duty as the gunner and needs to attend to the optics and controls in the turret.

This doesn't get addressed until the 3-man turret of the T-34/85 allows a full-time gunner.

That explains it. Thanks for the quick response, guys.

[Silvio Manuel]

Originally posted by Shosties4th:

The T-34 M40 commander needs to button in order to fire the main gun. He's does double duty as the gunner and needs to attend to the optics and controls in the turret.

http://www.wwiivehicles.com/html/ussr/t34.html

(Battlefield.ru seems to be down temporarily... I will add this link in later.)

This doesn't get addressed until the 3-man turret of the T-34/85 allows a full-time gunner.

Yikes, what a disadvantage! And the Sovs don't get the T-34/85 until what, late '43? Ouch.

[Shosties]

Originally posted by Silvio Manuel:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Shosties4th:

The T-34 M40 commander needs to button in order to fire the main gun. He's does double duty as the gunner and needs to attend to the optics and controls in the turret.

http://www.wwiivehicles.com/html/ussr/t34.html

(Battlefield.ru seems to be down temporarily... I will add this link in later.)

This doesn't get addressed until the 3-man turret of the T-34/85 allows a full-time gunner.

Yikes, what a disadvantage! And the Sovs don't get the T-34/85 until what, late '43? Ouch.</font>

[Silvio Manuel]

Originally posted by Shosties4th:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Silvio Manuel:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Shosties4th:

The T-34 M40 commander needs to button in order to fire the main gun. He's does double duty as the gunner and needs to attend to the optics and controls in the turret.

http://www.wwiivehicles.com/html/ussr/t34.html

(Battlefield.ru seems to be down temporarily... I will add this link in later.)

This doesn't get addressed until the 3-man turret of the T-34/85 allows a full-time gunner.

Yikes, what a disadvantage! And the Sovs don't get the T-34/85 until what, late '43? Ouch.</font>

[Shosties]

I can see it now: QBing with Guards units (veterans+ say) with lend lease M4s prior to the 34/85 becoming available will be seen as gamey when the ground conditions are dry.

The spotting ability and responsiveness of radio-equipped tanks with a non-distracted and unbuttoned tank commander counts big time.

[ September 05, 2002, 08:53 AM: Message edited by: Shosties4th ]

[Shosties]

It just ocurred to me that there should some months were Sovs get M4s (admittedly 75s and not 76s) and the Germans will not get Panthers.

[demoss]

I'm pretty sure I've seen my T-34M40s firing away while unbuttoned in Yelnia, so I'm not sure if the commander-as-gunner is necessarily modeled. I'll pay closer attention next time.

[SenorBeef]

Originally posted by Shosties4th:

The T-34 M40 commander needs to button in order to fire the main gun. He does double duty as the gunner and needs to attend to the optics and controls in the turret.

Not true. Granted, he has to hop into the gunners seat to make a shot, but being buttoned up represents closing and locking all the hatches.

[Battlefront.com]

demoss,

I'm pretty sure I've seen my T-34M40s firing away while unbuttoned in Yelnia, so I'm not sure if the commander-as-gunner is necessarily modeled. I'll pay closer attention next time.

If you do see it, that would be a bug

SenorBeef,

Not true. Granted, he has to hop into the gunners seat to make a shot, but being buttoned up represents closing and locking all the hatches.

CM doesn't have an third state of the TC, so Shotsies is correct. When the tank commander buttons up, he is manning the gunnary system. The time to open and close the hatch isn't very significant. What is significant is that if the TC is at the gun he isn't hanging out the hatch giving C&C signals to other vehicles. Even if we did simulate a state where the hatch is open and the TC is at the gun, C&C would still be non-existant.

And yes, undermanned turrets were a huge liability on the battlefield. The French learned this the hard way too since, like the Soviets, they had better armed and armored tanks than the Germans. And just like the Soviets, the Germans were able to decimate the French armored forces in reality when on paper the Germans should have been outmatched.

Steve

[Bruce70]

I'm glad I read this thread it has cleared a lot up. Its funny I already knew about the 4-man turret arrangement in the T34 but for some reason didn't stop to think about the implications for CMBB.