Thomas Frey Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 I own two computers, one is a desktop and the other is a Dell Insprion 8200. Both computers have Nvidia Video cards. The Desktop has a Nvida GForce 3 and I run driver ver. 41.09. The notebook has the GForce 4 Go 440 and I am running Toshiba's ver. 32.40 that was released just this Jan. The primary function for both PCs is business, however CM is my favorite game. I take exception to the idea that Battlefront has communicated an unwillingness to deviate from "technical purity" for the benefit of it's customers. The realality of the world is that Nvidia dominates the video card market and to suggest that customers should suffer due to some puritan ideology is obscene and a very poor business direction. Sounds like the ideals of other historic figures like Stalin and Hitler. There is absolutely no reason why the fifty applications / games that I use everyday can run on my Dell Notebook without issue, yet CMBB is nothing short of a technical nightmare. It runs great on my deskop and on my notebook it does not. I suggest, considering your current ideology, that you modify your system requirements to state Nvidia drivers are not fully supported. Battlefront should also realize that their customer base is not teenagers that only use their computers for games and screwing around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrullenhaft Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 Omigod ! Hitler & Stalin wrote this game.... I knew CMBB was accurate, but I didn't know it was that accurate ! Lighten up. If you really find everything so onerous just stop playing... it is only a game after all. The 'purity' that is mentioned by BTS/BFC is in the vein of properly using DirectX calls. Unfortunately video driver developers don't write perfect video drivers. That's one of the reasons why they release new versions - more performance; fix bugs. Often one conflicts with the other. CM isn't the only game that has problems with NVidia drivers (even if you haven't experienced it yourself). 2D apps hardly count since it takes a bit of screwing up by the video driver developers to mess up such DirectDraw/GUI routines. With the frequent release of video drivers by the major video manufacturers, there's bound to be problems. BTS/BFC have identified the versions that work with the game, even the latest versions can work (they just don't support FSAA properly). Things change so frequently for video drivers (at least between ATI & NVidia) that making blanket statements about their compatibility (current and future) borders on foolhardy. Both of these manufacturers have Developer Relations contacts that BTS/BFC contact on occasion to make them aware of problems that CM has run into with their drivers. Unfortunately a fix isn't forthcoming within a few weeks of notifying these contacts. Sometimes it takes quite a few months (usually at a minimum) before the problem gets addressed in some release (which sometimes gets broken by the time an official driver comes out... c'est la vie). BTS/BFC isn't some sort of 'goose-stepping development house' that is pummelling their customers with the 'purity' of their code. They've just followed Microsoft-defined guidelines on DirectX programming. There's nothing esoteric about what they're doing (even if it isn't common for other 3D game manufacturers to use all of the same calls) and they aren't programming with one video card in mind. However the problem remains that video card drivers aren't perfect and are subject to change. Apparently you feel the need to upgrade every-so-often... perhaps you unknowingly fit the profile of a 'teenager who plays games and screws around with his/her computer'... [ March 04, 2003, 07:19 PM: Message edited by: Schrullenhaft ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harv Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 I suggest, considering you are running Toshiba drivers on a Dell notebook that the problem is Not with CM, but with your computer/driver setup. Does CM work with the Dell 28.35 drivers for the 4Go in the 8200? Note that these are the only drivers currently supported by Dell (and I suppose Dell is following in Hitler's and Stalin's idealistic footsteps also). CM plays just fine on my i8000 with a 4Go and these drivers, and I see no reason why yours won't also. Harv [ March 05, 2003, 10:26 AM: Message edited by: Harv ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Frey Posted March 6, 2003 Author Share Posted March 6, 2003 You guys kill me. You are like two handed economist. One the one hand, we support Nvidia, on the other hand to state that we support Nvidia is fool hardy. I am happy that Dell's nearly one year old driver is supported and that a Dell 8000 works. However for people that are not teenages that just run games and basic apps, keeping up to date with Hardware and Video drivers is key. Try running the latest design and engineering software with out dated drivers. Besides, more and more users are on mobile computers and this is a platform that must be tested independently an cannot be extrapolated from desktop testing. I would suggest that Battlefront needs to get off the dime and become proactive about testing the latest drivers for the leading producers. The excuse of being a "small" developer only goes so far and then it will become a reputation. Oddly enough CMBO runs great on my Dell 8200 and I can live with that for now. Maybe we will start to see some patches that address more than game play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Frey Posted March 6, 2003 Author Share Posted March 6, 2003 I have found the Dell driver to be a problem with normal use and their support group admitted that the engineering group is looking at the problem. Toshiba has been much more proactive and has released a driver just this January. If you take the time to investigate the Nvidia / Notebook business, you will discover that all the hardware is basically the same, NVIDIA. Just so happends that Dell is lazy about fixing problems. Not unlike some one else. By the way, are you running XP Pro or another legacy OS? By the way, Dell does not even list the 8000 for sale any more? I assure you that CMBB will not run on my Dell. I have gotten it to load successfully once, and all the other times I jus get a black screen after starting a scenario. Again, CMBO runs with out issue. Originally posted by Harv: I suggest, considering you are running Toshiba drivers on a Dell notebook that the problem is Not with CM, but with your computer/driver setup. Does CM work with the Dell 28.35 drivers for the 4Go in the 8200? Note that these are the only drivers currently supported by Dell (and I suppose Dell is following in Hitler's and Stalin's idealistic footsteps also). CM plays just fine on my i8000 with a 4Go and these drivers, and I see no reason why yours won't also. Harv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harv Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 LMAO. And they say us Canucks are morally superior...did you live up here once? I can assure you that I have played CMBB (perfectly) on an 8000, 8100 and 8200, all with GF4 Go video, all with Win XP, and with different (and varying) driver versions up to and including the 42.xx series. None of us who own/use these computers were teenagers, and I think we just might have had more than "basic" apps loaded also. By the way, your 8200 will soon not be listed for sale any more now that the 8500 is available. So, I would suggest the the problem is Not so much with CM, as it is with your computer setup. I would also suggest that you become reactive, and fix those problems with your computer before blaming something else. To sum up (and repeat myself)...using Toshiba Drivers in a Dell laptop is a very bad idea. Harv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Frey Posted March 7, 2003 Author Share Posted March 7, 2003 Of all the applications I have on my Dell, the only one that will not run properly is CMBB and you suggest that their is a problem with my setup. Get over it, CMBB does not set the standard for PC operation. That you suggest it does tells me you don't run much else. Like I said, Nvidia hardware is Nvidia hardware. It does not matter weather you run a Toshiba, Dell, or Nvidia driver, it is all still Nvidia. Also, like I said, CMBO runs great. Thanks for the non-help. Originally posted by Harv: LMAO. And they say us Canucks are morally superior...did you live up here once? I can assure you that I have played CMBB (perfectly) on an 8000, 8100 and 8200, all with GF4 Go video, all with Win XP, and with different (and varying) driver versions up to and including the 42.xx series. None of us who own/use these computers were teenagers, and I think we just might have had more than "basic" apps loaded also. By the way, your 8200 will soon not be listed for sale any more now that the 8500 is available. So, I would suggest the the problem is Not so much with CM, as it is with your computer setup. I would also suggest that you become reactive, and fix those problems with your computer before blaming something else. To sum up (and repeat myself)...using Toshiba Drivers in a Dell laptop is a very bad idea. Harv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrullenhaft Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Sorry, but in my opinion your not asking for help... your just trolling and abusing anyone that responds to you. We're not asking you to prostrate yourself in supplication, but your attitude comes off as overly critical and judgemental. Basically I doubt anyone here could offer you help since you most likely won't take their advice. At this point I suggest that you email matt@battlefront.com, since this discussion is becoming antagonistic. Matt may not be able to reply to you immediately since he is often swamped with a lot of email and projects, but he should be able to offer some suggestions. Be aware that he may initially suggest that you install the 30.82/30.87 drivers, so you may want to mention your distaste for that in your first email. [ March 06, 2003, 07:50 PM: Message edited by: Schrullenhaft ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmatt Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 You don't to email me, I am here. You can accuse of anything you want but you are very wrong in pretty much everything you say above. We do discuss issues with Nvidia and they are aware of a number of issues that affect Combat Mission. In every case they admit that the fault is with something internal to their driver code. Since we know and they know where the problem lies it makes no sense for us to change our code to fix something that is on their end. Sure we could do so but what happens when their next drivers change something once more? Do we release another patch to fix the fix we made the first time? The simple reality is that someone has to maintain the intergrity of the DirectX and DirectDraw calls that Microsoft has laid down in their API. Combat Mission (both BO and BB) do that. Now it is up to the video card makers to release drivers that do the same. Our stance on this is quite solid. You can disagree with it if you want but that is simply how we do things. We make it very clear up front that we advise people to test the demo's BEFORE they make a purchase of any of our games. Thats why we offer demo's for every product we release (unlike some game companies). I am sorry the game isn't working for you as you want it to, but people have offererd to help you and you have simply shunned thier attempts. As such I doubt there is much we can do to make you happy so I am going to close this thread up to make room for people that are willing to accept the assistance that is provided here. Madmatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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