10cm Kanone

[Thin Red Line]

I've read several accounts of East Front mentioning the use by the Germans of a ATG of 10cm caliber. I think it was the K18, and was able to take out heavy tanks in early war. It is not in the game.

Was this type of gun very rare ? Or is there another reason why it isn't modelled ?

Best regards,

Nicolas

[Stalin's Organ]

There as no 10cm ATG.

Early in the war the germans often used 105mm artillery to destroy heavy Russian tanks like KV-1's and KV-2's.

They weren't AT guns - they were artillery firing over direct sights at short range.

I'm not sure if the K18 is in the game - but I'm sure the 105mm howitzer is.

[Doodlebug]

Originally posted by Thin Red Line:

I've read several accounts of East Front mentioning the use by the Germans of a ATG of 10cm caliber. I think it was the K18, and was able to take out heavy tanks in early war. It is not in the game.

Was this type of gun very rare ? Or is there another reason why it isn't modelled ?

Best regards,

Nicolas

Hi.

There did exist a K18, the K indicating Kanone. Not actually an ATG but I daresay pressed into use if the need arose. It was quite a long barrelled gun (L/52) and would probably do the job quite effectively but as it only had a limited production run which ceased in '43 probably just too uncommon to include in the game especially as I believe them to have been Corps level weapons and how often do Corps artillery batteries end up firing direct at tanks?

[Andreas]

10cm K18 was issued on the scale of one battery per Panzer and motorised division. This replaced a 15cm sFH battery in the schwere Abteilung of the artillery regiment.

There were also whole independent Abteilungen with this gun, and it was used as a coastal gun by the navy in the Baltics.

It is those four guns per division that are being referred to in AARs for dealing with Soviet tanks (most famous probably 1.PD at Rossienie 24/6/41.

Here is another post I made on the matter:

OOB:

1) TO&E strength - Panzer divisions had one battery in the Schwere Abteilung with 10cm Kanone 18, the other two with 15cm sFH. This from 1940 to the end of the war. In 1941 702 guns on strength throughout the whole Wehrmacht.

2) OKH reported 50% losses in August 41 - the gun did not take kindly to being abused as an ATG.

3) Realistically, there may never have been enough to go around. Production just matched losses throughout the war.

Use:

1) doctrinally - long-range artillery support for fast-moving mechanised troops (range 19km)

2) realistically (41-42): combating Red Army heavy and medium armour in DF mode

3) Counter-battery

4) Coastal

Problems:

1) Weight - very heavy, at 6 tons

2) HE load - very low at 15.47kg

3) Range - insufficient for task, but no successor developed.

4) Flexibility - restricted field of fire is no good for an ATG.

Reported combat use in 1941 - initial battles by 1. and 6. PD, e.g. Rossienie. Also confirmed later use.

Penetration:

10cm Panzergranate rot(weight 15.7kg)

mittlere Ladung: 602m/s MV (682?), 500m 112mm; 1000m 100mm armour penetration

grosse Ladung: 822 m/s MV, 500m 155mm; 1000m 138mm armour penetration

10,5cm lFH 18 had a much worse penetration and range capability. using same ammo, at 500m (MV 470m/s) it was only 52-59mm.

Effective range is given as maximum 500m (same for 15cm sFH) - I will test that in the game.

Ammo penetration for HL ammo:

10cm Granate 39 rot HL/A - 80mm (90?)

15cm Granate 39 rot HL/A - 160mm (130?)

For the 15cm sFH there was also a 15cm granate 19 Beton (concrete) for use against bunkers. Weight 43.5kg, penetration up to 450mm into concrete.

All the data from Fleischer/Eiermann 'Die motorisierte und Panzerartillery des deutschen Heeres 1939-1945'. (quoted as 'F/E from now on) Figures in brackets are where picture captions disagree with in text quotations.

Sources for use of 10cm Kanone 18 in this role:

Glantz 'Initial period of war'

F/E ibid

Tsouras (ed.) 'Panzers on the Eastern Front' (IIRC)

Stoves 'Die 1. Panzerdivision 1939-1945'