pathfinder1 Posted June 28, 2000 Share Posted June 28, 2000 I am still in shock after Sunday's Battle in "Chambois" by the Poles. Lordy, how the heck I rated a major allied victory after I only had a 25 lbr spotter, 2 mauled infantry platoons, and an immobilized Sherman left.... 1 panther (elite?) took out 7...count them...7 Shermans! but the Poles still came after to Germans.... especially their tankers... It seems the Polish arty (Brit?) shocked their CO to make a foolish stand in this big square... Gawd, but the losses....one after another the Polish Shermans brewed up..usually after getting a coupla Germans... my hat is off to the ballsy piat gunner who finally took out that Panther...while under fire from a German infantry squad...I sure wish I could remember his name... I think I should be courts martialed for those losses.... one humble pathfinder ------------------ this is pathfinder's evil twin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted June 28, 2000 Share Posted June 28, 2000 War is Hell! You just had a strong dose of it Pathfinder1! Chambois is known for its bloodiness both in history and on the electronic battlefront. You played well. You can't avoid large losses in this one. At least that was my experience, and I kind of knew what to expect WB ------------------ Wild Bill Lead Tester/Designer Combat Mission-Beyond Overlord billw@matrixgames.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SK Fish Posted June 28, 2000 Share Posted June 28, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wild Bill Wilder: You played well. You can't avoid large losses in this one. At least that was my experience, and I kind of knew what to expect <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I made the mistake of playing this one as the Germans first. It was like shooting fish in a barrel, I pushed the Poles off the map losing only 2 tanks and 2 halftracks. I think perhaps more of the scenarios should include a note on what side the human player should take. This scenario looks to be much more challenging play as the Poles, which I will try but I will now have the advantage of having already played it. [This message has been edited by SK Fish (edited 06-28-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Posted September 2, 2000 Share Posted September 2, 2000 *********** CHAMBOIS SPOILER *********** Wow, that is a bloody battle, Wild Bill, a real tough go. It's not so much a meeting engagement for the Poles as a purposeful, grim, deadly assault, as they attempt to attrit the tight, lethal cluster of German tanks perched on a hill to the south east and retain sufficient resources and command cohesion to be able to secure some real estate once the infantry is within firing range. And if you can take out one of his tanks for every two of yours, you're in with a shot of winning this, but at great cost. The big German tactical advantage is that they do not have to *move* their armor unless they choose to run for the exits, a point already made by players fighting this from the German side; you can surely win by running. When the human player fights as the the Poles, however, the AI chooses to make this a defensive engagement for the Germans, duking it out to the bitter end rather than heading for home. Is this at all inconsistent with the German strategic aim in this mission (i.e. to get out of Dodge)? My armor was decimated like Pathfinder1's, although I managed to retain a tank and a couple of other miscellaneous assault vehicles until about Turn 20, by which time I had captured three flags and had my infantry planted in the woods on the far left flank and in the trees ahead of the farm buildings in the middle. I was hanging on by my fingernails, however, as the Germans have considerable reserves, including -- on this occasion -- one surviving Panther and a couple of other assault vehicles and by Turn 25, I had to make a limited tactical retreat. Retained those flags, however, and scored a Major victory but suffered about three times the casualties (incl. KIA) than the opposition. Just a couple more questions about this characteristically brilliant mission: - Am I right in saying that this battle is about ATTRITION? Is there any way to fight it in order to avoid these terrible losses, especially of tanks? - Should you attempt to enter the town by the road on the Allies' far right flank, or is this a red herring? - The post-battle map reveals a large German mobile force installed in the town in the southwestern corner of the map. If these troops had come to the rescue of their comrades at about Turn twenty, I would have been outflanked. Is this a flaw in the TacAI, or a deliberate mission-design choice? - Was it true in the real battle that the Germans had such a commanding position on the high ground in the south east to rain shells on the Poles in almost all locations? [This message has been edited by Ice (edited 09-02-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted September 3, 2000 Share Posted September 3, 2000 Thanks fellas. Historically, the Poles were out for revenge as much as anything else, and who can blame them. The attack was spontaneous as the Polish units were lost and did not anticipate running into the 2nd Panzer Division. Both sides were surprised. The Germans were intent on escaping. The Poles were intent on killing them. Enthusiasm and desperation breed losses...terrible losses. My tactic was to keep the enemy occupied in the center of the map from the high ground north of the city while a strong flanking force entered the town from the Polish left. It worked well for me. And the comment from Ski Fish on noting if one side should be played over the other, he has a good point. I'll keep that in mind. Personally, however, in my own testing, I had challenge playing either side. When one controls the victory hexes, he always has an advantage. The enemy must come to him. The burden, however, historically is, how many units can you exit? If you just sit in the town and shoot at the Poles, yes, you can get a handy victory, but how many units can you exit is the challenge for the German player. Try playing the Germans with that in mind and see if it is a little more difficult. Hold the flags and exit units. Might be easy...might not. ------------------ Wild Bill Lead Tester Scenario Design Team Combat Mission-Beyond Overlord billw@matrixgames.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Adder Posted September 4, 2000 Share Posted September 4, 2000 Chambois - Polish armed forces meet their old nemesis, the 2nd PzDiv. I was playing “Chambois” yesterday, and encountered some disappointing AI. I positioned my tanks in all the streets leaving out of town, while I let my troop carrying trucks make their way to the “exit-zone”. After some rounds I still hadn’t seen any of the Polish troops, so I forwarded a Kübelwagen to see if they were awake. They were (behind the hill), and I am currently writing a letter to the deceased driver’s family. However, the Poles (AI) decided to attack. The first Sherman went OVER the hill, and – BANG! One down. The AI then keeps sending them OVER the hill, and my forces keeps on knocking them out. They knocked out five Shermans in one round at the most! I’ve posted a few pictures from this tank-buster-feast at my CM-page ( http://www.geocities.com/adder1972/index.html ). Now, if I was to play this scenario against a human player, he would most likely A: Send out a few scouts to do at least some recon, B: NEVER send his Shermans over the top, where they are just sitting ducks, and C: change tactics when his ninth Sherman blew up at the exact same spot. I guess it is more rewarding playing the Polish side, Best regards, The Adder ___ Previously posted in the wrong forum.... ------------------ "The Germans are such a cruel and inhuman race; they have no word for fluffy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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