James Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 Im a bit puzzled that single squads can adopt the human wave stance. I'm not widely read on the russian front (so please correct me if i'm wrong)but the examples I've read of russian infantry in human wave are always of 100's useally 1000's of men . I can understand masses of men doing the human wave assault as they'd take on the collective mood of the crowd instinct, but a single squad of 11 linking arms and going hurrah doesnt seem realistic. Apart from that the infantry behavior is spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWB Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 I suspect that is a mechanics thing--individual units take orders. Probably some unavoidiable link in the logic chain. But I do agree with you. WWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukkov Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 i know what you mean. you need at least a thousand people all cooperating to get a decent wave going at the game. less than that and the cameras just ignore ya. lol.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specterx Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 Try a human wave in Yelnia, it worked for me, and I killed twice as many as I lost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 If you’re doing the wave thing with a single squad I wouldn’t worry about it. You’ll be waving them goodbye shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 and I always thought the human wave was something you did at a sporting event Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 Naw, man, it's something you do from the back seat as the car pulls away from Granma's and Granpa's. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterX Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 I can understand masses of men doing the human wave assault as they'd take on the collective mood of the crowd instinct, but a single squad of 11 linking arms and going hurrah doesnt seem realistic. Because they're deaf and vision impaired? Maybe they don't realize they're ALL ALONE. Human Wave Attack is one of those mysteries that, if dwelt on obsessively, will drive you mad. Like reconciling the existence of Evil with a beneficent god. (Must stop thinking about Human Wave Attack.....) And you're right, any such attack should be en masse; the player should have to give the command thru the platoon HQ. Frankly, I think BFC could have achieved the same effect with elevated morale and a dash of fantacism. And aren't we getting into er, uh, racism territory with this feature? I mean, the Germans can't Wave Attack. One supposes they lack the primitive group-think animality of your Russian mouzhik. What's next? Sub-Zero Ambush Bonus for the Finns? In previous forum exchanges, BFC took pains to disassociate the CM engine, and any future iteration thereof, from any taint of National Characteristics. OTOH, the Japanese would probably rate as eligible for such a specialised trait. It's a thorny issue. I do like the distinction between Advance and Assault. At least I think I do. Everything's still kind of murky from innovation overload. [ September 13, 2002, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: PeterX ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawyer Posted September 14, 2002 Share Posted September 14, 2002 Originally posted by PeterX: No, we aren't getting into racism because, except for Mongols, they are all caucasians. Maybe you mean cultural stereotypes? But that's not true either because BTS is modelling historical military tactics used by Soviets, but not by Germans. Since I don't support revising history to meet the current sensibilities of some people, I don't see any "thorny issue" here. The Japanese actually did incorporate "banzai charges" as a tactic, and they also used suicide pilots. Maybe you don't like it, but that's what the way it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterX Posted September 14, 2002 Share Posted September 14, 2002 Lawyer posted: No, we aren't getting into racism because, except for Mongols, they are all caucasians. Yes, technically you're right. 'Cultural stereotype' is a more correct distinction. If memory serves, anthopologists allow for only 3 racial groupings The "R Word' does get tossed around quite a bit, often inappropriately. Perceived misdeeds committed against, say, Hispanics, has been attributed to 'racism'. This despite the fact that most Hispanics (an invented term) are, genealogically speaking, white europeans. The epithet hurling brigades have a way of squeezing all meaing out of a word like this through permiscuous overuse. The term 'Racist' should really be reserved for Nazis and Ku Klux Klanners. I was just going with the (wrong) flow. BTS is modelling historical military tactics used by Soviets Yes, the Soviets did employ Human Wave tactics. But not twelve men at a time. Rather attenuates the old group immersion factor, methinks. [ September 14, 2002, 07:39 PM: Message edited by: PeterX ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Schieben Posted September 14, 2002 Share Posted September 14, 2002 Hey PX, I don't think political correctness was all that big of an issue on the Ostfront. I mean, it was world war 2 and this wargame is somewhat simulating the event. If the developers had to worry about visible minorities and quotas that composed a human wave, the demo would just be a glint in the eye. Perhaps you should wait around for the UNFOR sim that should be coming out shortly. It features PC RPG elements, ability to just stand and watch, and even allows you to draw your own conclusions! Not to demean the actual persons! Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterX Posted September 14, 2002 Share Posted September 14, 2002 I don't think political correctness was all that big of an issue on the Ostfront. I mean, it was world war 2 and this wargame is somewhat simulating the event. If the developers had to worry about visible minorities and quotas that composed a human wave, the demo would just be a glint in the eye. LOL! Maybe what we need is an historical wargame programmed by an ad hoc team consisting of members of the ACLU, the National Org for Women the Congressional Black Caucaus, and the editorial board of the NY Times. That way we won't have anyone with hurt feelings. Except maybe heterosexual white males. And who cares about them? But what are we going to do with the guns? Hmmmm.... Stay tuned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterX Posted September 14, 2002 Share Posted September 14, 2002 Oops. Double post. [ September 14, 2002, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: PeterX ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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