Slow Movers

[athkatla]

When advancing platoons to contact, and if you want to move them there quickly, how do you go about getting your HMG/MMG there with them. It seems that I have to spend 1 turn waiting for them to catch up as you cannot issue the Run command to them, and if you don't have any vehicles to carry them forward, this can be a bit of a problem. Any thoughts?

[winkelried]

this is one of the challenges posed to the leader:

- do I want to get to the enemy or a position as quickly as possible? Then I will have to compromise on the firepower i can bring to bear and will leave the HMGs behind.

- do I want to bring as much firepower as possible to bear? Then I will have to decide for a slower movement or vehicle transport.

One possible tactic could be:

- bring a small forward element to the position. try to hold it until the main body arrives with the firepower.

but remember that every situation needs another decision, there is nothing like a standard ...

[Monty's Double]

Second that. If possible, advance under cover of your HMGs, then consolidate the position and bring them up. Remember the attack on the guns in Band of Brothers? The .30cal team suppressed the Germans while the infantry took the position. Same is true of tanks only more so; use their MGs and df HE to suppress while you assault, don't lead with them, or you'll find them popping smoke of the "one use only" variety. Just because they can outpace infantry doesn't mean they should.

[Conscript Bagger]

As often as not, I group the company MGs and mortars with the company CO. They all move slowly so it's easier to coordinate, and it's a good way to provide supporting fire while the quicker infantry maneuver like Monty said. And with a group of MGs, you don't have to be quite as close to put effective fire on an enemy position (more guns compensates for the drop in firepower at range).

[YankeeDog]

I'd have to agree that there isn't an easy solution to your problem - if you don't have a vehicle to help move them, your heavy weapons teams are inevitably going to trail behind the faster squads.

Any choice you make is going to involve compromise - moving a lead element up ahead of the heavy weapons puts that lead element in danger of being wiped out before the heavy weapons make it up to help it out. OTOH, slowing down your lead element so the MGs and Mortars can keep up will eat up valuable time and may allow your opponent to outmaneuver you.

It really comes down to what kind of movement drill you use: Traveling, Traveling Overwatch, and Alternate or Successive Bounding Overwatch. If you are unfamiliar with these terms, there is a very good article on them at CMHQ. Here's the link:

Infantry Tactics in Combat Mission by Christopher Hall

I often use a movement drill that's a variation on Travelling Overwatch when I'm moving MGs and squads together in CM. Here's one example of how I use it:

I hate to move my leading edge of infantry through open ground. My lead squads (or half-squads, depending on the situation) usually spend most of their time slogging through trees, rough, running in and out of buildings, etc. This is partially because I often want to check to make sure there's no zooks or shrecks hiding anywhere waiting to ambush my following tanks, but it's mostly because closer terrain represents better cover - when contact is made, if possible I want my grunts in terrain that will give them some protection.

All this scurrying back and forth between trees and buildings tends to slow my squads down some. I usually try to have my MGs follow 50-100m behind the squads, but they take a more direct approach to the objective on more open terrain that's easier to move through. Presumably, since the squads have already been along more or less the same route that the MGs are following, things are fairly safe, so the MG teams can afford to trade some cover for speed. In this way, all units (squads and MGs) move towards the objective at about the same rate.

For example, let's say I'm advancing a rifle platoon (with an MG team) along a road towards an objective and enemy contact is a definite possibility. My squads will generally not advance right up along the road - it's too open and exposed - They'll uses the trees or buildings or whatever on either side of the road so they have a bit more cover. The MG team will follow 50-100m behind the squads, but will take the road. This way, my squads will usually trigger any ambushes, or spot enemy units before the MG team comes into danger and I can adjust the MGs orders to put it into cover. When my lead squads to make contact, the MG is only one turn behind, and can offer fire support in fairly short order.

I usually use the above system in addition to more traditional overwatch support from other units. It's not perfect - a cagey opponent might let the squads go, and then open up on the rather exposed MG team when it comes into view, but I think it's a reasonable compromise between speed of movement and security.

I'm sure others have other ways of dealing with this problem that are equally useful. It's one of those tactical problems for which there is no simple, universal solution.

Cheers,

YD

[JMcGuire]

Originally posted by YankeeDog:

I'd have to agree that there isn't an easy solution to your problem - if you don't have a vehicle to help move them, your heavy weapons teams are inevitably going to trail behind the faster squads.

And of course, if you DO have a vehicle then your walkers are going to slow everybody down.

[JasonC]

In practice, the nationalities are different on this subject. The Germans have the hardest case, the Brits usually have it easy. The Americans are in between, but pretty well off.

Standard Brit support weapons are fast (2" mortars, PIATs) or slow for the occasional Vickers MG. As to the latter, you can often use MMG carriers instead - more mobile, plenty of ammo and the same firepower, and much more resilent to infantry fire. If you are defending the foot Vickers are fine, but you don't move them much. A pair or two can hop a ride on a tank in a pinch.

The main American teams are medium speed - MMGs and 60mm mortars. The Zooks are fast but get tired; at move speed they are comparable to the other heavy weapons. With these I find the practical thing is to wait for the squad infantry to reach to new location, overwatching with the weapons. Then move out. The weapons will trail if the advance continues, but whenever you go to ground they will come up in a couple of minutes. Your weapons HQ and company HQ can command the stay behinds in the meantime.

The only hard case is the 50 cal, or 81mm if you add them. The latter is particularly hard because it is too large (transport class 3) to ride on tanks. The solution is not to add 81s but instead use an FO or the 60mms that come with companies or weapons platoons.

For the 50s, there aren't many of them; you can usually ride a tank. One other solution is to take 1-2 M3A1 halftracks and use them to haul HMGs, whether 50 cal or M1917 water cooled 30s. They act as an MG firepower group, with very high ammo (since the 'tracks have 50 cal plus 30 cal and 250 ammo). Think of them as an AA section.

The Germans have it hardest because their excellent heavy weapons are slow speed, and their 81mm mortars don't fit on the back of tanks. You get something in return, though - a lot more punch, even at longer ranges. So one solution is just to fire from farther back, if the LOS lines are open enough to allow it. If they aren't, then you have a covered route to advance along.

Because of the speed difference, it can make sense to seperate the German heavy weapons from the squad infantry. Weapons HQs and company HQs command them, again. One common load-out is 2 HMGs and 1 81mm with a single such HQ, or just 2 HMG. At range, they have about the firepower of a platoon, though only about half the point blank firepower.

Two halftracks, or one halftrack and one tank, can move such a heavy weapons section. Then you have to pick their ground, and bring them up behind the cover they will deploy in after the squad infantry has secured it. Unload and set up, and expect to fire from right there, using your good FP even at long range. The vehicles can support too if it is safe in AT terms, by e.g. peeking around either side of the cover. HMG, HQ, HMG go online at the front side, mortar back with the HQ spotting, vehicles on the flanks.

If you don't have any vehicles, you just have to pick your spots well and plan ahead for the long humps between them. Think about where the HMGs are going to support the overall fight from, with range relatively unimportant. LOS width needs to be good, and a covered route to the location is also necessary. Head there single-mindedly until you arrive. The squad infantry will usually get well ahead. Once set up, don't expect to displace forward again.

Those are the methods that work for me. Your mileage may vary.

[athkatla]

many thanks to all of you for your varied answers. It seems that there is no "black and white" answer and that the terrain you are on and the kind of mission you are carrying out will decide what is the best way to deal with this problem. Once again, thanks guys

[Shosties]

Something to keep in mind: if your leading squads/teams are SNEAKing through woods, the MMGs and light mortars following them in the woods on MOVE are actually going to overtake them rather quickly! I was rather suprised to discover this, so it pays to enforce peroidic pauses lest your mortarmen and machineguners accidently become your point! (DOH!!)

[athkatla]

Originally posted by Shosties4th:

Something to keep in mind: if your leading squads/teams are SNEAKing through woods, the MMGs and light mortars following them in the woods on MOVE are actually going to overtake them rather quickly! I was rather suprised to discover this, so it pays to enforce peroidic pauses lest your mortarmen and machineguners accidently become your point! (DOH!!)

LOL, yes, not an ideal situation by any means

[Lou2000]

Of course you could leave your heavy

weapons behind undercover and just

blindly run at the enemy positions.

.....This isnt going to work very often but

it'll increase my chances of winning our

current PBEM game ! LoL

...If i see your guys suddenly rushing forward

in your next move, I'll assume you have gone

mad !

Lou2000