Slowing down overall tempo of combat

[tar]

It seems to me that the overall tempo of combat operations in CM battles is a bit on the high side. Some of this is the inevitable result of players having direct control of so many units. Another aspect is the lack of command and control effects beyond the platoon level.

One potential solution to this would be to significantly increase the movement delay for all headquarters units. This would require a bit more advance planning for offensive actions, and would likely result in more stalling of attacks, since openings in the defensives could not be exploited as quickly without units going out of command.

A more involved answer would be to extend the command and control functions to use the hierarchy of platoon-company-battalion commanders as well. In this case, subordinate leaders within command range of their superiors would get a reduced movement delay. This would allow for faster reactions from a concentrated force than for a widely scattered force.

This would be a good thing, since ISTM that it is too easy to coordinate wide flanking attacks in CM, mainly because of having a single player control both flanks. Introducing game mechanisms to add delay would mean that it would at least take a bit more time to get the coordinated attacks off. This could be made even more difficult if the command delay for being out of command were variable.

In addition to providing a slow-down of the tempo of advance, this would also serve to give some additional advantage to the defenders, since -- in general -- defenders do not need to move quite as much as attackers, and often their movement can be done using the withdraw command.

I think this will make attacks unfold a bit more historically, since there would be more of a period of consolidating an area that has just been captured before the assault goes off into the next phase. Of course, there will probably also need to be some upwards adjustment of the vehicle movement delays as well. This may work better with CMBB which is rumored to have vehicle command control already.

A further enhancement would be an ability to define rally points for say, company sized formations. The rally points would be a slighly more flexible method of determining which way the "withdraw" command would allow units to move. In particular, it would be useful for battles where the defender is surrounded and should ideally be withdrawing toward the center of a map rather than any particular edge.

[Ligur]

So you like playing 300 round battles? I get your point but within the engine...

[tar]

I doubt the effect will be quite that drastic.

In any case, it will also have the effect that offensive plans may get a bit rushed, since if the initial forces don't clear a key position on time, a player will have to either stop the follow-on forces (and incur a delay restarting the plan -- milling around and all) or else press on ahead even though things aren't quite as suppressed as one would like.

It would also have more of an effect of defining areas of operation for platoons, with changes in those areas of operations being more difficult.

That said, I wouldn't be too sad to see 30 turn games go up to 60 or 70. The actual number of orders given wouldn't need to go up much (unless you are micromanaging the squad positioning a lot!), so I would expect the actual time to play to go up by only about 50% or so, even though the game length jumps by 100%.

[Zarquon]

I also think the tempo can be a bit too high sometimes. The thing I thought about was to try and play 2 minutes at a time, i.e. plotting longer moves and then let your next command phase just go by without changing orders. It would lead to more cautious advances since you can't react every 60 seconds to a new situation anymore. Basically, that's another way to add command delays, I think. It will also cause some problems, especially with vehicles. Perhaps they should be excluded.

I haven't tried it vs. a human opponent yet (obviously you'd need somebody on whose fair play you can rely , but I will try it against the AI some time. I'm sure it will not comply with this house rule, but it's probably going to loose anyway.

Tell me what you think about it.

[Ligur]

I've seen the quick and brutal nature of CM battles discussed before with, for example, the rather unusual casualties taken during typical 30 minute fights.

While I agree with just about everything tar said I consider CM battles to be of the "decisive" sort. 25 minutes to take village, do or die.

In previous discussions about casualties and the frantic speed, the exact same things which tar mentioned surfaced: The player controls a battle group as easily as a single platoon.

Some say a part-cure is to play green troops.

The CM battle is also completely detached from the operational level. In "real-life" or if I had to think about the next day, I would sure as hell halt my battallion if I met some bunkers with great cover arcs and wait 4 hours to get some SP guns to deal with them. Or just wait for another day if my advance would take unacceptable, say, 15% casualties. And be all around more careful, thus extending battle time.

[Soddball]

Slow down?

I need more TCP/IP gaming! Faster! *twitch*

[Thermopylae]

Join a campaign!

[Ligur]

I just finished TCP/IP with 3 minute timelimit.

Thats about as fast as I like it.

*twitch*

*twitch*

[Priest]

You want realistic battles then add after effects. Try CMMC. Honestly I do not think that CMBO is inherently too fast, more to the point most players make it that way. Also two minute turns is not the answer and this has been dicussed way too much. Stock answer is: This is a game not a movieviewer, two minutes is too long and hurts playability.

[zukkov]

cm battles really aren't that far from real life. attacks would often happen over a relatively short period and things would move quickly as long as the momentum of the attack could be kept up. once the momentum petered out, then battles could drag on for hours or days. just think of cm games as the beginning of a mission when the battle is moving fast, or if you prefer, the final big push.

[Michael Dorosh]

Another possible "fix" would be to increase the recover time for tired and exhausted men....

[Silvio Manuel]

CM:BB might help this out a bit- I can see the increased MG effectiveness throwing things off quite a bit. Couple that w/ Green troops, and the variable fitness levels, and things should certainly slow down.

I've done a few 5 minute limit IP games, and I like it. I did one w/ 3 minute limit- it was tough, even though I only had 1 Brit Coy, plus 1 Engineer Pn and 1 Churchill VI. I micro-manage a lot, and wound up running out of time nearly every turn.

[tar]

cm battles really aren't that far from real life. attacks would often happen over a relatively short period and things would move quickly as long as the momentum of the attack could be kept up.

That's why I suggested only increasing the move delay for headquarters units. The tactical flexibility in an area of operations remains high, but shifting the center of effort by moving the headquarters is what I think happens too quickly. The extra delay in getting headquarters to move reflects the need to formulate the next stage of the plan or to consolidate the current victory and organize enough to move out.

The God's eye view gives players a bit more of an overview of the rest of the battle than the local commander on the ground would have. In reality, he would probably need to coordinate with higher headquarters in order to safely make his next move in a larger assault.