German IR and Wire Weapon systems?

[DSS Barbarossa]

While visiting missing links I noticed this scene with german troops feilding IR (Infa Red) system on their Sturmgewehr 44:

Missing Links

I've never readly heared much about the German army mass producting such a weapon. Also at one point when I was talking to Fionn Kelly and he mention the Germans also starting experimenting with wire guided AT rockets... Now I know the Cobra attack helicopter used wire guided rockets in Desert Storm.

Did this German wonder weapons really exist? If so where could I find information on them?

[KNac]

see this

you can find some info there

[ May 29, 2002, 12:55 PM: Message edited by: KNac ]

[Durbish]

I wasn't aware of any land based wire guided systems but they used such technology in aircraft launched anti ship missiles for sure.

Pretty wild, freackin cruise missiles in WWII :eek:

[Fionn]

X series Air to Air missile

Development of the X4 began in June 1943. Wingspan 6 feet, 6 inches.. Driven at 550mph by a variant of the Walter Rocket motor used on the Me-16 ( scaled down variant obviously).

Wires housed in wingtips which unwound as missle flew. Controlled by joystick from firer's position (in cockpit OR in bombardier's area of bomber/ gunner's area of twin-engine fighter)

Warhead: 44lb explosive with acoustic proximity fuze ( developed from fuze used on Rheintochter)

Wire-guidance was considered too restrictive and a Pudel acoustic homing system was installed instead. This version had the potential to home in on the engine noises of the American and british multi-engined bombers autonomously ( if development had continued).

X7 developed as offshoot ( and is reputed to have been used on the Eastern Front). gyro-stabilised, wire-guided ATGM carrying hollow-charge warhead and impact fuze. Used solid propellant rocket motor, reached 1000 metres, weighed 10 Kg and could penetrate over 200mm of armour.

If you want to see what it looked like look up a picture of the French Milan ( 1950s vintage wire-guided ATGM). It looked exactly like that. Hell, they even kept the ability to launch the rocket from an area slightly away from the controller's location so as to prevent the enemy knocking the controller out with accurate fire at the blast-off point .

Rheintochter was the world's first quasi-operational SAM system. The guidance hadn't quite been worked out but it sure flew well enough and with a bit more time it could have been knocking bombers down. 78 out of 82 rockets launched seemed to have passed all but the homing stages of testing.

[DSS Barbarossa]

Oh right Fionn I remember you mentioned the X series now come to think about it... thanks everyone for the answers about the rockets. now just the IR to figure out, I've seen pictures of current Swish Military sporting similar weapon systems to the ones shown on the Missing Links site.

[Durbish]

Fionn, Do you still maintain your world at war site?

[Kingfish]

This one is not wire guided, but radio controlled:

Fritz X

[patolino]

Another guided weapon used operationally with some success was the Henschel Hs-293. I recall I was absolutely stunned when I read about these babies the first time :eek: -- no wonder the German scientists were employed on both sides of the curtain after the war.

[PawBroon]

Originally posted by Fionn:

If you want to see what it looked like look up a picture of the French Milan ( 1950s vintage wire-guided ATGM).

Nope.

MILAN is way more modern.

What you're talking about is/was the SS11.

Very often used on our AMX13.

[John D Salt]

Originally posted by DSS Barbarossa:

[snips]

Also at one point when I was talking to Fionn Kelly and he mention the Germans also starting experimenting with wire guided AT rockets... Now I know the Cobra attack helicopter used wire guided rockets in Desert Storm.

Did this German wonder weapons really exist? If so where could I find information on them?

Certainly it did, as the Ruhrstahl X-7 "Rotkäppchen" ("Little Red Riding-Hood"). A drawing appears under the appropriate entry at

http://www.digitalfact.co.jp/missile/missile-data/jiten2.htm

Gander & Chamberlain's excellent "Small Arms, Artillery and Special Weapons of the Third Reich" (MacDonald and Jane's, 1978) has an entry for it on page 339. It gives the following details, which match those given on the abovementioned site apart from length:

Body diameter 150mm

Wingspan 600mm

Length 950mm

Weight 9 Kg

Warhead weight 2.5 Kg

Initial velocity 100 m/sec

Burn time 2.6 sec

Max speed 360 km/h

Max range 1200m

The entry also mentions, intriguingly, "troop trials took place on the Eastern Front early in January 1945"; so it seems more likely to have seen action than the Maus, at least.

I can find no details of the guidance system, except that it uses some form of wire guidance, but it seems a fairly safe guess that it would use acceleration-control MCLOS. The drawing in Gander & Chamberlain shows the guidance wire paying out from a wingtip nacelle on the starboard wing; to my mind the nacelle as drawn doesn't look big enough to hold 1.2 kilometres of wire.

All the best,

John.

[Fionn]

Marcel,

Scheisse. Yes, the SS-11 s what I meant. Oops.

Darwin?,

Nah, drew too many wackos out of the woodwork. BTW seeing as you were interested in CoC too when did it go down? I was busy with RL for the last couple of years and when I came back it was gone. What's the skinny? I used to play it quite regularly ( under pseudonyms).

The joy of 2 x 42s and 2 x SMGs with a good buddy covering your back and working in concert had to be seen to be believed. I spent many evenings on that game.

[Durbish]

That game was great. Unfortunately, I think they went under, no details other than me not finding them... My PC didn't like an overhaul they made so I had to stop playing a long time ago anyways but for nostalgias sake I kept trying

Don't know if you remember "noshoes" but he was my favorite wingman, we seemed to see things moment by moment the same knowing just what the other would do, very fun.

Whacko's argh! It's good to see you are posting here again. BTW thanks for your CM articles, be prolific

[Fionn]

Yeah I know Noshoes by rep AND by knifefight .

He and I would often end up on opposite sides. You know, you and I probably crossed swords many times on CoC then .

I was, then as now, always the madly aggressive one... If you seem to remember someone with a Germanic nick constantly trying to work in REALLY, REALLY close before delivering the coup de grace then that was almost certainly me . I was the original "Mr crawl along the wall until opposite the enemy and then pop up with a couple of SMGs and hose them down"

[Durbish]

I thought I was the madly aggressive one

I am sure we fought, probably often. There were only so many players we actually worried about, you almost certainly were one of them. Having played several large multiplayer games since, I have a blur of names in my head though.

I think we may have been unfair using roger wilco back then but it sure was fun