CMAK prefixes for modding and mods

[Cabe Booth]

Not actually prefixes, rather numerical addition for modding in CMAK

I think I got it finally

If someone could give the same BMP rules for CMBB I would be grateful.

found this post on CMMods forums

"you add 50000 to the bmp number,

when snow is present in parameters the game engine looks for a bmp number above 50000.

the game does not come with any so it defaults to the stock number.

a tank that is 17640 tan in north Africa is 117640 green in Italy is 67640 in snow.

-Junk2drive"

I found later that the same tank with the number 167460 will be an Italy ONLY winter tank, useful for certain camo styles if you want them to be Italian winter default.

I will explain this many ways so that folks can understand. As I said I also discovered another bmp number, the 150000 and up, that I myself didn't know what it it was until now.

a base (default) bmp number is under 50000

leave it at base bmp number for normal-for CMAK that would be N. Africa

add 50000 to make it a winter vehicle or 150000 for Italian winter

add 100,000 to make Italian theater only unit

add 50000 to the Italy theater number and you get a snow unit that shows up for winter in Italy ONLY. Or just add 150000 to the base number that is, any number <50000

I have to say this just to be thorough even though it is obvious:

Obviously changing the BMP number doesn't magically transform a unit into a snow covered unit, it just makes it show up in those theaters/weather. So theoretically u could change the number of a desert tank and make it show up in winter by adding 50000 to all the bmps in the file.

I will make up a generic bmp for example

let's say a unit has a bmp of 6600

leaving it at 6600 will allow it to show up in N. Africa----for other player made mods it will be ETO as well

Adding 50000 to it makes it show up in winter.

So all winter units will be the base unit plus 50000

That unit with 100000 added to make it 106600 will make it show up only in Italian theaters. This may include East Africa. I have yet to confirm. Some would call it it Mediterranean camo mod?

Add 50000 to an Italian/Mediterranean theater mod to make it 156660 and I THINK it makes a winter mod specific to Italian/Mediter/E.africa theaters only.

so my thoughts are

6600 N Africa

56600 winter.... it don't snow in desert fool.. um yet

106600 Italy and maybe E.Africa

156600 winter Italy

if this is wrong someone plz correct me.

more examples I found

On CMMods website:

An afrika Korps tan desert kublewagon was labeled 3790

A normal ETO winter kublewagon was labled 53790

An Italian kublewagon was labeled 103790

a dirty White washed Italian kublewagon was labeled 153790

a normal wirblewind chassis BMP is 4110

a winter is 54110

50,000 has been added to make a winter mod

a wirblewind for Italian theater is 104110

ALL ACTUAL ITALIAN NATIONAL UNITS ARE NUMBERED NORMALLY LIKE OTHER COUNTRIES... under 50000.bmp

All units can be designated as an italian theater ONLY unit by adding 100000 to it.

150000 and above is a snow Italian theater unit

only. non Italian units use the 100,000 addition to become Italian theater units only,

if no 100,000 unit is found by the program it defaults to...

the base unit. In the case of the wirlblewind it would be the 4110 bmp, never the snow 54110 unless it was winter in Italy......... then yes, you get the winter mod 54110 loaded by default.

so to designate default CMAK units as Italian theater units only, add 100000 to them. To make em winter Italian add 150000. A good way to sort your camo styles.

Just remember that actual Italian army unit are numbered just like all other countries and show up as default in all theaters they are present in historically, unless you made a special "Green" Italy mod and wanted it to be in Italy only then you add the numbers above to keep it from popping up in the desert.

All units are handled the the same. even the actual Italian national units. I cannot say this enough

50000 and under are normal N. Africa and ETO units

+50000 winter

+100000 Italy ONLY

+150000 Winter Italy ONLY

if no Italy or winter Italy mods are present for a unit, then you get the default unit BMPs loaded.

I said it enough ways.....

it isn't too confusing right?

someone explain CMBB to me now.

[David I]

Cabe,

For the first BMP number for each vehicle in CMBB and for all uniform BMPs go to BFC's Resources (above),CMBB weblinks, GD for CM and look for their Combat Mission section.

DavidI

[Cabe Booth]

so I am assuming that some if not all unit BMPs are different in CMBB?

Looking at the list it seems so.

oh,

and thanks for the link. It is invaluable with all the dead links out there

[David I]

Cabe,

Be careful about imposing a common sence numbering system to the BMPs in these two cames.

Some numbers transfere directly from one game to the other, many do not. Some vehicles don't appear in the early part of the war so they might be yellow but don't have any of the prefixes that you would expect to see. Examples of that include the Lynx, Hetzer and SPW 251/16, to name a few. Also some vehicles add or detract some bmps, again like the Lynx (loses some baggage).

Sometimes it is worth your while to go to CMMODs and see exactly what bmps are part of a vehicle you are planning to mod. Always back up your stuff.

Good Hunting.

DavidI

PS. Oh, and you are welcome.

di

[Philippe]

Originally posted by Cabe:

so I am assuming that some if not all unit BMPs are different in CMBB?

Not only are some of the bmp numbers different, but in a few cases some of the polygons are different as well. To be sure that something is transferable you have to compare mods from the two games and compare them bmp by bmp.

[Cabe Booth]

so I am revising a bit here.

under 50000.bmp means early war unit (in cmak that usually means desert or crete camo, but in CMBB it means early war.) So if you download a mod form the CMBB files into CMAK that has matching BMPS numbers you will see a ETO unit in the desert.

over 50000.bmp-? means winter unit. Basically the early war unit BMP number plus 50000.

Over 100000 means late war unit

OVer 150000 mean late war winter unit.

in early war winter maps, game looks for a for a bmp 50000-99,999 if it finds none, then it defaults to your summer mod.

In late war winter maps the game looks for a bmp number over 150,000. if it find non it defaults to the late war summer bmp mod (meaning a bmp over 100,000.

what is the early war cut off? I see late/mid war units mixed in the bmps under 50,000.bmp that on;y show up in early italy and not crete or africa.

WHat are the bmp number ranges for cmak?

early

early mid

late

early winter

min/late winter

Late winter

I have a lot of them figured out, i guess the mid war bmp numbers have me confused

[junk2drive]

Around June/July 43 Germany stopped painting things grau and started gelb.

If you start a late war battle with an early war unit that was only grau (like a PZII), you will see a grau unit on your screen.

IF you go into the editor and create a late war scen with a gelb only unit (like a Panther), then change the date to 1941 it will still be gelb on screen.

Desert AFVs IIRC left the factory grau and were oversprayed at arrival with tan. Same rules as above plus the cutoff for getting kicked out of Afrika.

Allied units that don't have paint changes may have low bmp numbers and no high bmp numbers.

[ March 04, 2007, 01:55 PM: Message edited by: junk2drive ]

[Cabe Booth]

so under 100000.bmp Germany is grau or in CMAKS case DAK

Thing is I notice some ETO camo units for late war under 100000.bmp

I guess there are still some thing about the numbering system for CMAK I am foggy on. I have the whole winter thing down it seems.

when you see a unit labeled mid-late or early mid..... where does that fall in the number system?

sorry I am just want to make mods when I ever get done with all my constant painting for work.

I want to make some DAK units for crete. I dunno volcanic dusting or something like that. I just want to make sure I get it right when I upload them.

I know that certain theaters are going to have camo restrictions on them, such as no winter units in Crete or NA/EA.

But I do see alot of ETO paint scheme units set in the same BMP numbering as a DAK unit in the CMMODS unit search for CMAK mods.

Is this just due to laziness or error on the uploading modders part or is it just a CMBB mod mixed in by accident?

Oh and BTW, can you get cmmods page to load today? I have had no luck getting it to load for about 3 days now.

Seems like the server is under maintenance or down.

[junk2drive]

Early-mid-late models refers to factory production, not mods. Uniforms have a whole different scheme.

Quick battles allow purchase by date. Someone did an ETO mod for early war bmp numbers so that you could play ETO QBs. Not to be confused with the ETO mod for late war Italy.

For Crete and Greece, I use grau. For DAK units look at Dey and Patboy mods for ideas and bmp numbers.

PS the same AFV in CMBB and CMAK may not have the same bmp numbers or even the same number of bmps. Trail and error and way too much time spent learning what you want to know...

[DEY]

Okay I'll throw in my two cents worth here, firstly DavidI summed it up quite well above by stating that there is no common sense method that can be used here.

Regarding AFV's in the Combat Mission games... well frankly for mostly all stuff in the Combat Mission games there are two sets of BMP skins, one for winter and one for the other three seasons( which well be referred to as summer from here on in).

Regarding AFV's starting with CMBO, BTS just added a digit 1 to the front of the summer number BMP sets, so... say something that was numbered 3600 for summer, would be numbered 13600 for winter.

In CMBB there was a new complication brought to bear with there being so many AFV's and plus the fact of the Germans having two base colors schemes of their AFV's through out the war.

Regarding the Germans you can state that anything in the grey base color are numbered only in the 5 digit number system, but some of the later war yellow base colored stuff is also numbered in the lower 5 digit numbers.

Also starting in CMBB, BTS used a different system to differentiate between summer and winter BMP sets, they added 50000 to the summer BMP set number, they would be numbered for winter as stated below;

summer - 5400 would be 55400 - winter

summer - 14550 would be 64555 - winter

summer - 106400 would be 156400 - winter

summer - 115600 would be 165600 - winter

Regarding CMAK you still only have two BMP sets, with the winter one only used for Italy, it is unavailable for Africa and Crete.

As for the summer set, this comprises of the desert color scheme used for Africa and Crete, and the later gelb colored scheme used for Italy.

It appears that BTS used the number sets from the grey color based from CMBB for the desert colored stuff in CMAK.

The winter system is used the same in CMAK as CMBB, but only of course for gelb colored Italy stuff.

There are few German AFV's that where used in CMBO that where kept in all three games unchanged, such as the ostwind, kubelwagen.

Then there are a few that where in CMBO and left unchanged in CMBB such as the JagdpanzerIV, MarderII, but was redone in CMAK.

As for the BMP numbers in relationship to point in time of unit manufacture life, IE: early, mid etc, you will find things that are know as EARLY numbered in the 6 digits, while something know as LATE could be numbered in the 5 digits.

[Cabe Booth]

Ok,

I think I am getting it now. I see my numbering system has been off quite a bit.

Help me clarify some things though.

If I am looking at a Tiger I early mod,

In this case a MikeyD Tiger I early and the numbered BMPs start with 112560.bmp , then it will only show up in Italy.

If had 50000 added to it to become 162560 then it would be a snow tiger in Italy. Obviously it wouldn't have snowy graphics, it would just appear in the winter. Since the game doesn't have snow mods installed in its default mod file I could and should download a Daffy WW unit to install for winter.

If we take another MikeyD Tiger I early and it is numbered 12560.bmp then it would show up in Africa and Crete, but not Italy. And if I added 50000 to it to become 62560.bmp it would show up in the Italian snow maps. Right?

My confusion here is that a Tiger I, and Tiger I (early) and Tiger I late are all different production/loadout versions of the Tiger tank that occured throughout the war.

So If I wanted to have 2 versions of a tiger tank,

I would download a tiger with 12560.bmp and so on in in its zip file for my Africa and Crete maps. Then I would download another with 112560.bmp for my Italian battles.

I could have them both installed and if I ran an Italian map it would load the 112560 mod overriding the 12560.bmp?

Just as the winter mod would override the summer mod?

So to have a full set of Tiger I early tanks I could have 3 early tiger mods installed

a 12560 and a 112560 both theaters.

and then a 62560 or a 162560 for winter maps?

Sorry to drag this out so much. I do use cmmods to look up the different bmp numbers for the mods. I am mainly wondering if adding a '1' to the beginning of a mod makes it an Italy only mod. That way I can make my full set of mods with different paint schemes since I use McMMM.

I found CMMOS modsets to hard to find..... or do you guy prefer CMMOS for better organization of your mods?

I am having a mental debate on it. I like the McMMM for light modding. CMMOS just seems like a large project to set up.

[DEY]

Somemore clarification is in order here, since I didn't do a very good job of explaining above.

With CMBB, since it covered the whole war, you'll have the two base color schemes for the GERMAN AFV's, all AFV's will be in a grey base color up to and including Feb/43, starting in Mar/43 everything will be in a yellow base color.

So that would have one set of summer BMP's for the grey and one set of summer BMP's for the yellow.

Of course then there is a winter slot for each of these two color bases.

Now there is the case of overlapping time factors and two color bases of the same AFV, if say you set the time for sept/42 and load a PzIV-F2 in the editor, it would be in a grey color base, regardless of ground condition(snow(winter) or snowless(summer). Say then you change the date to June/43 then the yellow base color AFV is loaded up on the map.

In CMBB the time factor is the key as to which color base is loaded up if there is overlapping color schemes of the same AFV. Lets try this example; say you set the editor for june/44 and load a panther, you will of course see a gelb panther, change the date to Aug/41 and you will still see a gelb panther... why?, because there are no grey based panthers. Try that with the Early Tiger and you would see a gelb Tiger in 1944, but in 1941 you would see a grey based Tiger because there is a grey based Early Tiger and you have the time set for when everything is in that color scheme.

That would be the very same regarding the winter stuff as well, what triggers the game engine to load winter stuff is the ground condition, if set to one of the snow ground conditions it checks for a winter BMP set, if it can't find anything then it just loads the summer number set.

Now for CMAK it appears that BTS used the number system for the grey based stuff in CMBB for the desert stuff for Africa and Crete, which I should also state here that there is grey based stuff in 4 digit as well as 5 digit, hell there is actually gelb stuff in the 4 digit number area as well.

Anyway regarding how the AFV's show up in CMAK, if you set the editor for Crete or Africa then the desert stuff will be what appears on map, if you set the editor for the All Combined again as noted above about CMBB the time factor takes over, if the editor is set before July/43 only the desert (tan) based AFV's will load on map, if set at July/43 or later then the gelb based stuff only loads on map.

Now regarding winter mods for the desert stuff, you can't get snow ground conditions if the editor is set for either Africa or Crete, but you can get snow ground conditions for the desert stuff if you set the editor for ALL COMBINED, keep in mind though that the time factor comes in play here, if the time is set before July/43 then the desert stuff shows up on snow. From July/43 on, the gelb stuff is loaded on map.

As far as the gelb numbering for cmak, the german stuff is numbered pretty much as CMBB is, you'll find gelb based stuff numbered all over the place.

Mostly all the desert models are the same models as the grey numbered models in CMBB, a mega chunk of the Gelb base stuff has kept the same numbering as CMBB, like the Tigers, the Panthers (though there is a screw up on the cmak early G), also I beleive the Stugs are all the same, PzIII's. There was just a few AFV's that where reworked in CMAK such as the JagdpanzerIV, MarderII.

I don't use a mod manager, I just overwrite a mod from time to time for a different look, though a good quarter of my stuff are WIP's that I've got sick of screwing around with and have about three different schemes on them.

[Cabe Booth]

Thanks for the long response.

It is making sense now.

I have mentally absorbed the snow info you described, thanks for clarifying it even more.

As I have noted, there are ETO units that share BMPS with DAK german units so I began to wonder why.

The whole Gelb and Grau thing is what had my head mussed up. Since the DAK units appear to be Gelb, but are just over-painted Grau.

I am using cmmos right now to kind of get a grip on the numbers as many have suggested.

Thanks to everyone for the attention to this subject.

It has been a wealth of info.

[Cabe Booth]

I am assuming that the Panther G error in CMAK you mentioned is that it does not have its own set of BMPs?

I see in my McMMM mod screen that is shares the same BMP set with the Panther D

I see this by viewing JorgeMC's Panther pack, it may be my error, but that's what I see.

Plus when searching the mod database for a panther G, there is really none other than ones for the ETO mod.

[Cabe Booth]

ah scratch that, I don't know. My error.

[Cabe Booth]

I guess the best thing at my disposal is this list downloadable here at the BoB website. The unit avalibility list Sure you guys have it. Newbies like me don't.

"Vehicle BMP List for CMAK"

http://webandofbrothers.de/tablescharts.htm

I guess I can make my mods set in to zip files of selected mods by going down the list and checking them off.

Just make a folder for each theater and search CMMODS for each unit pick my favorite mod for a certain unit and when done, combine them into a zip file to either extract directly into my CMAK bmp folder or use McMMM

Sounds fair enough.

Thanks all