antawar Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 Hi everybody! Was wondering, are the ethopians included in the game ? Thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antawar Posted November 12, 2003 Author Share Posted November 12, 2003 Hi everybody! Was wondering, are the ethopians included in the game ? Thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio Baratto Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 I hope so! Furtheremore, in the Italian Army of Invasion of British Somaliland there were 23 Colonial Battalions... giobar 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio Baratto Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 I hope so! Furtheremore, in the Italian Army of Invasion of British Somaliland there were 23 Colonial Battalions... giobar 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 From the FAQ: Which nationalities will be included? Currently the list of included nations is as follows. USA Germany Italy Britain Canada Australia New Zealand Poland South Africa France It doesn't look like Ethiopan troops are included, unless they were added later. I forgot to check at the sneak peek, not that I could tell you anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 From the FAQ: Which nationalities will be included? Currently the list of included nations is as follows. USA Germany Italy Britain Canada Australia New Zealand Poland South Africa France It doesn't look like Ethiopan troops are included, unless they were added later. I forgot to check at the sneak peek, not that I could tell you anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio Baratto Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 Actually, "Black Troops", troops from Lybia, Eritrea, Italian Somaliland and Ethiopia were, in all effects, integrant part of the italian army in Africa. And so they should fall under the voice "Italy" in the the Nation rapresented list. But maybe they are not different from the italian soldier in the game... we'll see giorgio 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio Baratto Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 Actually, "Black Troops", troops from Lybia, Eritrea, Italian Somaliland and Ethiopia were, in all effects, integrant part of the italian army in Africa. And so they should fall under the voice "Italy" in the the Nation rapresented list. But maybe they are not different from the italian soldier in the game... we'll see giorgio 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Graeme Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 Ah, but when the British under Orde Wingate liberated Ethiopia, they made use of a contingent of 'Free Ethiopian' troops under the Emperor's authority, as well as numerous groups of Ethiopian warriors under the command of their local warlords rising up in the name of the Emperor. So while the British force was decisive, the black troops, ie the Ethiopians rising against the Italian occupation, were more numerous. Not to mention the local equivalent of 'partisans' who never gave up. True, the important battles of the liberation were British vs Italian. Still, I would like to see the Ethiopian regular (European trained) army included (small as it was compared to the warrior units at the initial invasion & even tinier during the liberation) because I would like to create scenarios re the original Invasion. However, using Italian Forces, and British Infantry without tanks, heavy artillery or airpower would probably allow 1935 invasion scenarios quite nicely. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Graeme Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 Ah, but when the British under Orde Wingate liberated Ethiopia, they made use of a contingent of 'Free Ethiopian' troops under the Emperor's authority, as well as numerous groups of Ethiopian warriors under the command of their local warlords rising up in the name of the Emperor. So while the British force was decisive, the black troops, ie the Ethiopians rising against the Italian occupation, were more numerous. Not to mention the local equivalent of 'partisans' who never gave up. True, the important battles of the liberation were British vs Italian. Still, I would like to see the Ethiopian regular (European trained) army included (small as it was compared to the warrior units at the initial invasion & even tinier during the liberation) because I would like to create scenarios re the original Invasion. However, using Italian Forces, and British Infantry without tanks, heavy artillery or airpower would probably allow 1935 invasion scenarios quite nicely. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOS was 71331 Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 Wasn't the Brit CO during the East Africa campaign Lieutenant General Cunningham, the Brit army brother of Brit Admiral Cunningham? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOS was 71331 Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 Wasn't the Brit CO during the East Africa campaign Lieutenant General Cunningham, the Brit army brother of Brit Admiral Cunningham? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 No. He was there, but he wasn't in charge of the theatre. Later, during Op CRUSADER, Cunningham was in charge of the RN, Cunningham was in change of 8th Army, and Conningham was in charge of the RAF. :eek: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 No. He was there, but he wasn't in charge of the theatre. Later, during Op CRUSADER, Cunningham was in charge of the RN, Cunningham was in change of 8th Army, and Conningham was in charge of the RAF. :eek: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 Originally posted by JonS: He was there, but he wasn't in charge of the theatre.I can't recall who was overall commander of the campaign (Wilson again?), but Cunningham did command the forces attacking out of Kenya into Italian Somalia and eastern Ethiopia. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 Originally posted by JonS: He was there, but he wasn't in charge of the theatre.I can't recall who was overall commander of the campaign (Wilson again?), but Cunningham did command the forces attacking out of Kenya into Italian Somalia and eastern Ethiopia. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Emrys: Cunningham did command the forces attacking out of Kenya into Italian Somalia and eastern Ethiopia.Yup, the 12th African Division consisting of 1st South African Bde, 24th Gold Coast Bde, and 22nd East African Bde. He seems to have been in charge of Kenya as a whole too. (Edit: actually C wasn't GOC 12th African Div, but it was one of his fmns. See post two down) I'm not sure if there was an East African "theatre" commander as such - Platt (Sudan) and Cunningham (Kenya) seem to have referred back to Wavell an awful lot. I'll have a look later tonight. Regards JonS [ November 14, 2003, 02:19 AM: Message edited by: JonS ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Emrys: Cunningham did command the forces attacking out of Kenya into Italian Somalia and eastern Ethiopia.Yup, the 12th African Division consisting of 1st South African Bde, 24th Gold Coast Bde, and 22nd East African Bde. He seems to have been in charge of Kenya as a whole too. (Edit: actually C wasn't GOC 12th African Div, but it was one of his fmns. See post two down) I'm not sure if there was an East African "theatre" commander as such - Platt (Sudan) and Cunningham (Kenya) seem to have referred back to Wavell an awful lot. I'll have a look later tonight. Regards JonS [ November 14, 2003, 02:19 AM: Message edited by: JonS ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 Originally posted by JonS: I'm not sure if there was a theatre commander as such - the Divisional commanders seem to have referred back to Wavell an awful lot. I'll have a look later tonight.I believe you're right. Now that I think of it, Wilson couldn't have been there as he was busy in Greece at the time. There may have been a corps commander or de facto corps commander for the forces coming from Sudan, but at the moment I don't know who that could have been either. Maybe I will bestir my bones and see if I can dig it out. Ah, here's something: The attack from Sudan was commanded by Platt. Both he and Cunningham were lieutenant generals and so would have commanded corps had the troops been organized in that way. I haven't found a reference yet to any corps organizations as such, but that doesn't mean that there weren't any. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 Originally posted by JonS: I'm not sure if there was a theatre commander as such - the Divisional commanders seem to have referred back to Wavell an awful lot. I'll have a look later tonight.I believe you're right. Now that I think of it, Wilson couldn't have been there as he was busy in Greece at the time. There may have been a corps commander or de facto corps commander for the forces coming from Sudan, but at the moment I don't know who that could have been either. Maybe I will bestir my bones and see if I can dig it out. Ah, here's something: The attack from Sudan was commanded by Platt. Both he and Cunningham were lieutenant generals and so would have commanded corps had the troops been organized in that way. I haven't found a reference yet to any corps organizations as such, but that doesn't mean that there weren't any. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 Tidied up previous post, with specifics on the units. The relevant British OH gives L-G W. Platt as the commander of the Sudan, and L-G A.G. Cunningham as commander of the East Africa Force, so I don't think there was an overall commander - other than Wavell. Platt and Cunningham are shown as being equivalent to the commanders of Egypt, the WDF/Cyrenaica, and Palestine-Jordan-Cyprus. Jumbo moved from Cyrenaica up to Greece, and never seems to have been involved in East Africa, except when he was acting C-in-C (Med) for a while in mid-late 1940 while Wavell was away in England. M-G Godwin-Austin was commander of 12th African Division, not Cunningham. Cunninghams other major force component seems to have been M-G Brinks' 1st South African Division (2nd and 5th SA Bdes, and 25th East African Bde). Bdes at this stage of the war, and in this theatre, seem to have shuttled between divisions with bewildering regularity and rapidity. [ November 14, 2003, 02:20 AM: Message edited by: JonS ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 Tidied up previous post, with specifics on the units. The relevant British OH gives L-G W. Platt as the commander of the Sudan, and L-G A.G. Cunningham as commander of the East Africa Force, so I don't think there was an overall commander - other than Wavell. Platt and Cunningham are shown as being equivalent to the commanders of Egypt, the WDF/Cyrenaica, and Palestine-Jordan-Cyprus. Jumbo moved from Cyrenaica up to Greece, and never seems to have been involved in East Africa, except when he was acting C-in-C (Med) for a while in mid-late 1940 while Wavell was away in England. M-G Godwin-Austin was commander of 12th African Division, not Cunningham. Cunninghams other major force component seems to have been M-G Brinks' 1st South African Division (2nd and 5th SA Bdes, and 25th East African Bde). Bdes at this stage of the war, and in this theatre, seem to have shuttled between divisions with bewildering regularity and rapidity. [ November 14, 2003, 02:20 AM: Message edited by: JonS ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Graeme Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 Getting back to Wingate, he served under Platt as Liaison to Haile Selassie, and it was he who organized and led 'Gideon Force' which brought the Emperor from the Sudan into the Gojjam region, and ultimately, into Addis Ababa itself (which was already liberated by Cunningham, who indeed was present to greet the Emperor). Can't wait for CMAK! I've already compiled a list of twenty scenarios I want to create just on the initial Italian Invasion of Ethiopia alone! With titles like 'Enda Gorge', 'Valley of the Juba', 'Starace's Column', 'Worq Amba Nightmare', and 'Ad Termaber - The Ethiopian Thermopylae' in which two Companies of Ethiopian army cadets defended the last pass barring the Italian descent on Addis Ababa. All historical scenarios. For Ethiopians I'll use Commonwealth troops without tanks, airpower or heavy AT. Will try to stick with the weapons mentioned in my sources. The Ethiopians did have at least one battery of 75 MM guns, for instance. It is going to be great fun creating these scenarios. I'll be posting them to the Proving Grounds, later the Scenario Depot. But first I have to get the game! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Graeme Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 Getting back to Wingate, he served under Platt as Liaison to Haile Selassie, and it was he who organized and led 'Gideon Force' which brought the Emperor from the Sudan into the Gojjam region, and ultimately, into Addis Ababa itself (which was already liberated by Cunningham, who indeed was present to greet the Emperor). Can't wait for CMAK! I've already compiled a list of twenty scenarios I want to create just on the initial Italian Invasion of Ethiopia alone! With titles like 'Enda Gorge', 'Valley of the Juba', 'Starace's Column', 'Worq Amba Nightmare', and 'Ad Termaber - The Ethiopian Thermopylae' in which two Companies of Ethiopian army cadets defended the last pass barring the Italian descent on Addis Ababa. All historical scenarios. For Ethiopians I'll use Commonwealth troops without tanks, airpower or heavy AT. Will try to stick with the weapons mentioned in my sources. The Ethiopians did have at least one battery of 75 MM guns, for instance. It is going to be great fun creating these scenarios. I'll be posting them to the Proving Grounds, later the Scenario Depot. But first I have to get the game! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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