Savage4 and texture filtering

[Feldwebel]

I have a S3 Savage4 Pro 16MB card and I have the same fogging problem as everyone else with the Savage4, but on top of that, I don't get any texture filtering. When I am close up (view level 1-2), I get these bad-looking squares.

I use 1024x768 and I have no problems with other games.

I have tried everything, CM is detecting the hardware, I have the latest drivers for everything, and I have tried every damned combination of settings both on DirectX and the Savage4 (using S3Tweak).

Now what shall I do (yes, I know: buy a new card). There must be someone out there with the samme card without problems, so please help. It's not good for CM's reputation either, my children are laughing at me, asking why I am playing this odd-looking old-fashioned game instead of Daikatana!

[DEF BUNGIS]

If your using S-3 teak, you may want to take a closer look at what settings you have selscted, especially the advanced settings.

Is the card AGP or PCI?

If it's PCI, try to lower your resolution.

Also make sure your S-3 teak resolution matches your desk top resolution. CM uses the same resolution as your desk top settings.

Also one more note. What direct-X version are you using. You can not use S-3 Tweak "texture patch" setting on with Direct-X 6a or 7.

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Better to make the wrong decision than be the sorry son of a bitch to scared to make one at all

[Feldwebel]

Thanks DEF.

The card is AGP using 28MB (I have 128MB RAM). I have tried other settings up to 40MB with no result, and I have tried using 'VidTex only' with no result, other than a lower performance.

I am using the same resolution, as my desk top, but I have tried all resolutions including changing the desk top resolution, deleting CM's pref-file and then running CM. No result.

I am not sure what you mean by 'texture patch'. I am using S3Tweak version 1.09a and my DirectX version is 7.0a (4.07.00.0700).

[Elmo]

I have a Diamond Stealth III S540 Xtreme which is also Savage4 based (32 MB on the card). I'm not using any tweaking, and I don't think I have any "bad looking squares" either. Maybe you could post a screenshot though as I'm not sure what you are seeing. I'm using the card as it came out of the box and the graphics look good to me, even close-up.

Elmo

[DEF BUNGIS]

Hmm....

Ok, try this.

AGP set for 64MB (use the 2X setting) Side band - checked

Texture set to "by app"

Tripple buffer - Checked

Wait for Vsync - unchecked

Under Misc - oversample - checked

Dbias set for -0.4

Command DMA set for 4MB Buffer

Under Mini GL - Auto mip map, Auto S3TC, and

Texture cache - checked

Tripple buffer - Checked

Uncheck all other settings.

Stop all overclocking.

Set your resolution to 800x600 24 bit color.

And last but not least, be absolutely, possitively sure your using the right drivers for your card.

Here are some sites to check.

http://www.s3.com/default.asp?menu=support&sub_menu=S3_Graphic_Chips&item=drivers&product=Savage4_395

http://www.s3p.co.uk/

http://support.soundblaster.com/files/download.asp?OS=Win98∏=db_savage4

[Feldwebel]

Thanks again, DEF

I've tried all the settings, you suggest (except the color, I can only choose between 8, 16 and 32), but with no luck. I even found the newest driver (7. august) on the S3 planet link, but still the same. I guess, I have to live with it.

Thanks to you too, Elmo. I have mailed you a screenshot, so you can see the ugly squares.

[DEF BUNGIS]

Sorry about the 24 bit thing, I mean 16 bit.

It seams funny your having problems with just smoke and not building transparancy.

A couple last things to check would be to lower your hardware exceleration settings from the contol panel settings for your video card. I would suggest start with the lowest settings for everything, including resolution. Then work up from there. You may want to play around with the Direct X control panel too. You can find that under the Program files folder.

I'm not an expert, so hopefully someone else on the board can give you some more advice.

SCHRULLENHAFT - has been known to have alot of fixes for people, maybe he can help you with this one.

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Better to make the wrong decision than be the sorry son of a bitch to scared to make one at all

[Elmo]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Feldwebel:

Thanks to you too, Elmo. I have mailed you a screenshot, so you can see the ugly squares.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup, got it and sent you back one. We're seeing the same thing. It may be that when you get up very close to something like a tree you see the individual pixels and that is the best resolution you can get. I'm not sure though so maybe someone else can confirm that up close, most scenery is reduced to small squares of color.

Elmo

[Feldwebel]

I don't have problems with smoke, DEF. I can't get full fog like the rest of the Savage4 owners.

Elmo, you have the same problem as I. I have send you a picture from TGN Picture of the Day, where you can see what it should look like. Is this a generel problem with CM and the Savage4? Is there anyone out there with a Savage4, who gets texture filtering?

(Texture filtering smoothe out and blend the small squares that you otherwise will see when you get so close to a texture, that the individuel pixels is blown up to squares)

[DEF BUNGIS]

Ahh yes the fog problem.......This is a common problem with savage 4 and S3 chipset cards.

A driver problem I suppose, and there is no fix for it.

S3 or the card vendors need to post new drivers for fog to work correctly.

I get a little fog, but not much. Not like the screen shots from CMHQ.

I am satisfied with my Savage 4 32MB AGP for now. But you can bet your ass when I go buy a new card I'll be checking all the blocks before I purchase it.

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Better to make the wrong decision than be the sorry son of a bitch to scared to make one at all

[Elmo]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Feldwebel:

...Is there anyone out there with a Savage4, who gets texture filtering?

(Texture filtering smoothe out and blend the small squares that you otherwise will see when you get so close to a texture, that the individuel pixels is blown up to squares)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I looked at the specs for my card and I don't specifically see texture filtering listed. I do see Single-Pass Multi-Texture Blending and Z-Buffer Multi-Texture Blending, whatever they mean. I bought an older (read cheaper) card because my system can't handle 4X AGP. If I ever upgrade it will certainly include a better card. For now I can live with blocks. I did email Diamond about getting their drivers to support fog tables better, I get a little fog like DEF, but no new drivers have been posted.

Elmo

[Feldwebel]

I am sure your card can handle texture filtering, Elmo. Savage4 uses both trilinear filtering, anisotropic filtering and you name it, according to S3's home page.

I have a lot of 3D-heavy games (Tomb Raider, Quake, Daikatana, Deus Ex and even Micro Softs Flight Simulator), and there seems to be no problems whatsoever with fog, filtering and so on in these games.

I must admit, that I think, it's a CM-problem. I can live with it too, because CM is probably the best wargame, I have ever seen, but I sure hope for a patch.

What about you, DEF. It seems, that you have a Savage4 and texture filtering. Have you done anything special or are you just lucky.

[Guest Scott Clinton]

FWIW my creative S4 card has no problems with texture filtering and fog effects (but the heavy fog does look a little on the 'lite' side IMHO).

My only problem is/was when I try to multitask I have a 'graphics crash'. I can avoid this by cranking down my resolution to 1024x768 or less. It is weird because my frame rate and all else works fine at higher resolutions, it just does not like it when I multitask at higher resolutions. Also FWIW my desktop is set to 1152x864 (ie higher than the game).

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Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own.

[DEF BUNGIS]

I too think BTS can do something in the next patch concerning fog.

There are alot of other folks out there who don't get fog as well. It seems one of the hottest topics on the tech support forum.

I do get a little fog, but the FOG and THICK FOG settings look exactly the same on my card. I have tried everything.

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Better to make the wrong decision than be the sorry son of a bitch to scared to make one at all

[Elmo]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Scott Clinton:

FWIW my creative S4 card has no problems with texture filtering and fog effects (but the heavy fog does look a little on the 'lite' side IMHO).

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm certainly not an expert, but if the chipset is the same and you get those effects, then those of us who don't have a driver problem, not a CM problem. That is not to say CM couldn't be enhanced with vertex fog, but it sounds like the difference is in the drivers not the game.

I saw a new Savage 4 driver that was linked to the S3 Planet website IIRC, but I haven't been willing to try it yet. I was hoping for something from Diamond (my card maker).

Elmo

[Elmo]

Here is the link to a "tweaked" Savage 4 driver that I mentioned:

http://home.hccnet.nl/j.groot/downloads.htm

I have no idea whether it addresses either texture filtering or fog issues. If anyone tries it, please post the results. Thanks.

Elmo

[Guest Scott Clinton]

Elmo, I too am not an expert but I can tell you there is a LOT more to graphics cards than just the chip set.

For example I can not run ANY of the S3 reference drivers on my Dell PC with my Creative Labs Savage4 card. They simply don't work (it drops my resolution to 640x480 and my color to 256!!!). I have to stick exclusively with the Creative Labs drivers.

I may try the tweaked drivers you mention above...if I am feeling brave.

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Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own.

[DEF BUNGIS]

I'm running the tweaked drivers that elmo posted right now.

Not much of a change. Very stable. May be a slight miniscule better fog, but nothing to get excited over. The S3 tweak that comes with the drivers has some fog settings, I played with it extensively, and no matter what fog settings I choose, there is no difference in the way fog looks in CM.

If your system is stable, I suggest not installing these drivers, it's not worth fixing something that's not broke.

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Better to make the wrong decision than be the sorry son of a bitch to scared to make one at all

[Elmo]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DEF BUNGIS:

...

If your system is stable, I suggest not installing these drivers, it's not worth fixing something that's not broke.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

DEF - Especially when it doesn't sound like the driver fixes anything. Thanks for taking the point with that driver. My system is running fine now after a month of sorting out problems from installing the new Diamond card. My wife was not pleased! So I think I'll leave well enough alone for now and hope for a Diamond driver fix.

Scott - I agree. I even had trouble with the latest Diamond driver forcing CM into 800*600 mode. Had to drop back to the driver that came on the CD with the card to get back to my 1024*768 desktop setting. Very odd.

Elmo

[DEF BUNGIS]

It doesn't look like were going to get any fog in CM unless the driver providers address the problem specifically.

There was a message on the S3 planet page that said new drivers for the savage 4 are on thier way, it seems there was some confusion between the card manufacturers and the driver providers. We'll have to wait and see if this changes anything.

As for now, if suggest sending an E-mail to your card maker explaining the problem. Just maybe....they might listen.

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Better to make the wrong decision than be the sorry son of a bitch to scared to make one at all

[Feldwebel]

I have tried every tweaked driver, I could find on the web with no result, so today I capitulated and bought myself a Geeforce 2. It is rather expensive, but it's worth it. Now I have the texture filtering, I want, and nice fat fog too.