Siegfried Line

[Frenchy]

For those intereseted, I have posted online a report from Sixth Army Group (US) Headquarters concerning the tactics used in breaching the Siegfried Line. It is dated Dec 1, 1944. To download go here:

http://www.trailblazersww2.org/library/6thAG_siegfried.pdf

I apologize for the quality. It is readable but you have to spend a little time with it.

[Sir Uber General]

It is interesting to note that the bunkers here did not contain AT weaponry as they were built to house 37mm guns. Larger weapons did not fit and they were left outside, easily suppressed by artillery.

[Maj. Battaglia]

Frenchy,

Thanks. Although I had seen your sig before, it did not register with me when I have visited the Trailblazers site on previous research missions that a forum member was webmaster. Just last week I referred to some of its contents in the bazooka discussion.

It's a great site with a lot of good info that is worth preserving. Good job!

[Frenchy]

Major:

Thanks for the compliments! I have started work on another site with the 33rd Infantry Division. Found out my step grandfather served with them for nearly 4 years (1941 - 1945). Didn't breathe one word about it to me.

[wbs]

This document is interesting when you compare the observations in it against the durability of cement pillboxes, and the tactics used against them, in scenarios such as "Westwall" or "Clash of Eagles".

It's also interesting to see that these pillboxes contained 37mm instead of 75mm AT guns. In the game, we only have a choice of 75mm AT gunned Pillboxes, and no opportunity to get the 37mm pillboxes.

One could point out that this is because the Siegfried Line was built in the late 30's and/or 1940, perhaps, while the game is set in 1944-45.

However, the fact remains (according to the document)that in 1945 the only AT Guns contained within Siegfried line cement pillboxes were the 37mm variety.

[JasonC]

Err no not quite wbs. If you read the article, it says they only found HMGs in the pillboxes. These were MG pillboxes, in CM terms. No ATGs were found inside them, 37mm or otherwise. Not too surprising, since the German army wasn't using 37mm PAK anymore by late 1944.

What is surprising, to the point of being nearly unbelievable, is the assertion that small arms fire directed at the firing slits (12 by 14 inches and recessed into the pillbox wall) was entirely effective in preventing MG fire out of those firing slits.

It is also noteworthy that unlike CM, these concrete pillboxes were said to be extremely difficult to detect, even at close range, despite French maps and apparently sometimes "strange looking mounds".

In CM, pillboxes are essentially immune to small arms fire, even in terms of suppression. But they are easily detected from a mile away. Which would seem to be backwards, if this report is to be credited.

[Harry Yeide]

JasonC's point re: MG-only pillboxes also comes through in the American AARs and combat interviews regarding the West Wall in the Aachen area. The 3d AD noted that all 75mm AT guns were located in well-camouflaged positions outside the pillboxes. The bunkers themselves clearly came in every quality range from Mercedes to Yugo. There are AARs indicating that 75mm guns took care of some, but that's rare. Re: small-arms fire against slits, the 30th Infantry Division reported that it's Tennessee sharpshooters were pretty good at this--during the Würm River crossing in October 1944, a large number of German MG gunners were found inside pillboxes with holes between their eyes.