us-british mines ww2 information/links please

[dog of war]

looking for information/links on us-british mines ww2 .pictures drawings scematics and background information on the specific types/models.

can not find anything but demining stories

have located sites dealing with german tellermines ok

[John Kettler]

dog of war,

What should be a simple task has turned into a multi search engine nightmare and a series of busts in the ordnance volumes from the Army Green series, THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF WORLD WAR II, Forty's U.S. ARMY HANDBOOK 1939-1945, etc., so bad I really ought to bill you! Below is my best find.

This is an online ordnance recognition site (see landmines once there), but you're going to have to combine it with at least a list of mine designators because the people that built this useful site failed to include the date or even decade of service entry for the ordnance depicted.

http://www.maic.jmu.edu/ordata/Mission.asp

To get you started, I'm going to list some of the known British and American models from WW 2, courtesy of my remaindered JANE'S MINES & MINE CLEARANCE 1998-99. AP = antipersonnel; AT = antitank.

British

Mk 2 AP

Mk 5 AT

You might also see whether John D. Salt, whose supply of British ordnance data seems limitless, can help.

American

Couldn't find any I could confirm were of WW II vintage. Suggest you contact the curator at the U.S. Army Engineer Museum, Ft. Leonard Wood, Missouri for a list of the common U.S. WW2 mines.

Both British and American paratroopers used the

Mk II No. 75 Hawkins AT mine, shown here in both real and replica form.

http://www.geocities.com/gir327_401/No75_hawkinsmine.html

This site has some great mine history, including the fact that the Finns invented the daisy chain

mine, but its real value lies in some of the references cited, especially the one on mine and countermine ops in North Africa. Believe there was a similar pub for Europe.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/docs/981100-schneck.htm

Refererence 57 in this one looks valuable.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/docs/980700-schneck.htm

This should help, too, but it'll cost you.

http://www.military-info.com/MPHOTO/P110.htm

Exhausted regards,

John Kettler

[John D Salt]

Originally posted by John Kettler:

You might also see whether John D. Salt, whose supply of British ordnance data seems limitless, can help.

Hah, fat chance!

I'm, afraid my resources are painfully thin in the matter of mine warfare.

In particular, I have twice the square root of bugger-all on US mines, although I am prepared to bet that "Anti-Tank Mine M1" will be the designation of the most commonly-used beast.

For British ATk mines, I have the following information, for the Mk II and Mk IV from "Hanbook on the British Army 1943" (Chamberlain and Ellis, Military Book Society, 1975, a partial reprint of TM-30-410, for the Mk V from an illustration in "Warfare Today" (Bacon, Fuller and Playfair, Odhams, undated but probably 1943) and for the No. 75 grenade ("Hawkins mine") "The Encyclopedia of infantry weapons of WW" (Hogg, A&AP, 1977):

______________Mk II____Mk IV____Mk V____No. 75

Height________3.25"____5"_______5"______6.5"

Diameter______7.5"_____8"_______8"______?

Weight________8lb 4oz__4lb______?_______2lb 4oz

Filling_______12lb_____8lb 4oz__8lb_____1lb 12oz

The "Handbook" says that the Mk I and Mk III mines are obsolete, and no longer issued, and the Mk. II is noted as being obsolescent. It also states that "A mew model, Mk V, which has a spider top similar to the U. S. mine and eliminates certain disadvantages of previous marks, is being tested". However, the illustration (by Lesley Ashwell-Wood, a name some people may recall from their boyhood) in the Odhams book shows the Mk V as visually indistinguishable from the Mk IV, and certainly with no "spider top".

The "Handbook" says the Mk IV is fuzed for a pressure of 320 lbs. It says that the divisional supply coy carry 1,232 Mk II or 880 Mk IV mines. This does not seem many, as the Odhams book says 600 mines can be carried in a 3-ton lorry.

PRO document WO 291/808, "The effectiveness of Br. Mk V (standard) AT mines and No. 75 grenades against German Mk V tanks", has some things to say about the inadequacy of these mines against Panther. It says that the Mk V mine is certain to break a Panther track only if it bursts entirely within the width of the track. If it bursts at the edge, the tank will still be mobile 3 times out of 4.

Two No. 75 grenades ("Hawkins mines") are insufficient to break Panther track; three are needed.

The following probabilities of stopping a Panther are given for different mine densities in a minefield panel 50×20 yards:

Density_________Mk V mine______3 × No. 75 grenade

1 mine/yard________52%______________25%

2 mines/yard______100%______________50%

I'd be a bit suspicious about any claim of 100% general stopping power for any minefield.

All the best,

John.

[Michael Dorosh]

I would get in touch with David Gordon, who wrote the books EQUIPMENT OF THE WW II TOMMY and WEAPONS OF THE WWII TOMMY, you can usually find him at my website's forum.

[dog of war]

thanks to each of you for all your efforts and i will check out all the information you have provided

[John Kettler]

John D Salt,

I have twice the square root of bugger-all on US mines

I nominate the above passage for inclusion in the best post ever thread. Hilarious and informative!

Regards,

John Kettler

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by John D Salt:

In particular, I have twice the square root of bugger-all on US mines, although I am prepared to bet that "Anti-Tank Mine M1" will be the designation of the most commonly-used beast.

Uh, that would be "Mine, Anti-Tank M1" rather. I'm surprised that a man of your experience would make that mistake. Ah, feet of clay again. Tsk, tsk.

Michael

[John D Salt]

Originally posted by Michael Emrys:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by John D Salt:

In particular, I have twice the square root of bugger-all on US mines, although I am prepared to bet that "Anti-Tank Mine M1" will be the designation of the most commonly-used beast.

Uh, that would be "Mine, Anti-Tank M1" rather. I'm surprised that a man of your experience would make that mistake. Ah, feet of clay again. Tsk, tsk.

Michael </font>

[John Kettler]

dog of war,

Here's the book which has the answers to your U.S. mine questions.

http://stonebooks.com/archives/010909.shtml

Regards,

John Kettler