Mad Russian Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 In Hans von Lucks book "Panzer Commander" on page 91 he states that the Grant was better than the Pz IV. I see the Grant - Lee be a very capable tank here in CMAK. Nothing like a Panther mind you!! But very capable. Panther Commander 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 Originally posted by Panther Commander: In Hans von Lucks book "Panzer Commander" on page 91 he states that the Grant was better than the Pz IV. I see the Grant - Lee be a very capable tank here in CMAK. Nothing like a Panther mind you!! But very capable. Panther Commander Is he referring to the so-called Mark IV Special, or just the short barreled Mark IV? In AN ARMY AT DAWN, the Lee is derided as being as big as a cathedral, and the combat reports of some of the actions they were taken into were...um...less than inspiring, though largely due to tactics (or lack thereof) rather than technical deficincies per se... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Russian Posted January 2, 2004 Author Share Posted January 2, 2004 That section of the book covers the end of May 1942 so I am assuming the Pz IV special. He does not mention it specifically. This would be from the German point of view as well. Often a particular piece of equipment was looked at differently by people on opposite sides of the gun sight. Panther Commander 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 I'll bet the Germans in Russia viewed the Lee/Grant series much differently than their counterparts in Panzerarmee Afrika. Lots of photos of burned out Russian jobbies, that were probably handled poorly tactically, and seen as much inferior to the KV and T-34. So the Germans probably had a few different perspectives on the matter, too... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Russian Posted January 2, 2004 Author Share Posted January 2, 2004 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: I'll bet the Germans in Russia viewed the Lee/Grant series much differently than their counterparts in Panzerarmee Afrika. Lots of photos of burned out Russian jobbies, that were probably handled poorly tactically, and seen as much inferior to the KV and T-34. So the Germans probably had a few different perspectives on the matter, too... The Russians called it 'a grave for seven brothers'. To my knowledge that is the most descriptive name it was ever given... Panther Commander 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 In May 1942 there were no Pz IV longs in DAK. The guy is obviously comparing it with the short 75L24 model Pz IVs. He sees the Grant as superior because it chucks 75mm HE just as well as the Pz IV does, and kills armor better. The Grant is clearly inferior to a Pz IV long, which can kill at much longer ranges with higher accuracy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Russian Posted January 2, 2004 Author Share Posted January 2, 2004 Originally posted by JasonC: In May 1942 there were no Pz IV longs in DAK. The guy is obviously comparing it with the short 75L24 model Pz IVs. He sees the Grant as superior because it chucks 75mm HE just as well as the Pz IV does, and kills armor better. The Grant is clearly inferior to a Pz IV long, which can kill at much longer ranges with higher accuracy. Panzertruppen Volume 1 page 178 shows the strengths for 15th and 21st Panzer as having 31 PzIV's with the short barrel. On page 181 there is a picture of 10 PzIVF2's arriving for DAK in May of 1942. So yes there were some there in May 42 but I don't think they had been in combat yet. So Luck was more than likely talking about the short barreled versions used by DAK. Panther Commander 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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