Hans Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 On this date a number of French units broke contact with their German pursuers and escaped (into internment) in the Confederation of Helvetia. From R Stoves book on the 1st Panzer he covers this with only one line, noting that the PzRecceBtl 4 reached the Swiss border on June 17th and the following comes from the German war diary: Pz.Div.: receives order to turn northwest. K.1 occupies Morteau on the swiss border at 17:00. S.R.1 takes Montbeliard at 18:50. However from another source its says several French units crossed the border to avoid the German advance - does anyone have information on what French units these were? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted January 14, 2005 Author Share Posted January 14, 2005 Le bump 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junk2drive Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 I think you are making Trivial Pursuit - Grog Edition 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkelried Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 Originally posted by Hans: Le bump Not looking at the board every day Here some info - more to follow: Most units were of the 45e CA (I am checking the details). ca 29'000 French troops plus one Spahi regiment (2'400) were interned. In addition 12'500 Poles fighting together with the French were interned. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkelried Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 Here some more: 45e CA (Gen Daille) 67e DI (Gen Boutignon) 2e DCP Polonaise (Gen Prugar-Kettling) 2e BS (Col de Torcy) Do you need more details? Like regiments and batallions? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted January 14, 2005 Author Share Posted January 14, 2005 THANK YOU WINKELREID! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted January 14, 2005 Author Share Posted January 14, 2005 Originally posted by Hans: THANK YOU WINKELREID! ooops left out the meat of the message. Yes please I could use the most detailed information you might have. Could you also let me know which reference book(s) you are using! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkelried Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 I use the Nafziger papers (maybe you have it too, so I don't need to dig ) and some Swiss stuff W. Rings, Die Schweiz im 2. Weltkrieg H. Senn, Bâle et le plateau de Gempen D. Vetsch, Aufmarsch gegen die Schweiz etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted January 15, 2005 Author Share Posted January 15, 2005 Halo Winkelried No unfortunately I don't have Nafzigers materials. Could you give me some information on the 2e DCP Polonaise and the Spahis unit and either of the two French divisions? Thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkelried Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 Originally posted by Hans: Halo Winkelried No unfortunately I don't have Nafzigers materials. Could you give me some information on the 2e DCP Polonaise and the Spahis unit and either of the two French divisions? Thanks here we go (my comments and interpretations in ITALIC): The XLVe CA initially was a fortress corps (CAF) and responsible for the fortified sector Jura (which was barely fortified). The fortified sector was detached on May 19, 1940. The following units were assigned on June, 17: ORGANIC TROOPS VII/400e Régiment de Pionniers II/170e Régiment d'Artillerie de Position 45e Parc d'Artillerie de Corps d'Armée Compagnie de Sapeurs-Mineurs 145/1 Compagnie de Parc du Génie 145/21 Compagnie Télégraphique 145/81 Compagnie Radio 145/82 Détachement Colombophile 145/83 Compagnie Automobile 345/7 Groupe d'Exploitation 445/7 Compagnie de Ravitaillement en Viande 445/7 ATTACHED TROOPS 67e Division d’Infanterie (weak active duty cadre, no 25mm ATG, 3 37mm ATG per regiment) Probably a green outfit looking at the standards of CMAK </font>211e Régiment d’Infanterie</font>214e Régiment d’Infanterie</font>220e Régiment d’Infanterie</font>28e Demi-Brigade Alpine Légère (attached, probably just 2 Bns of mountain troops).</font>13/214 Compagnie de Pionniers</font>52e Groupe de Reconnaissance de Division d'Infanterie</font>57e Régiment d'Artillerie Mixte Divisionnaire (3 Bns of 75mm, 1 Bn of 155 C-17)</font>10/52e Compagnie Anti Chars (6 x 47mm ATG “biflèches” The best the French had)</font>Compagnie de Sapeurs-Mineurs 67/1</font>Compagnie de Sapeurs-Mineurs 67/2</font>Compagnie Télégraphique 67/81</font>Compagnie Radio 67/82</font>Compagnie Hippomobile 67/17</font>Compagnie Automobile 167/17</font>2e Division de Chasseurs à Pied Polonais (formed in March 1940, no divisional ATG coy, 24 25pdr guns see below ?? - conflicting source)I am not so sure what the level of this unit was. Probably some veterans from the Polish campaign. Equipment seems to have been second rate in contrast to the 1st Polish Division, which seems to have been a first rate outfit </font>4e Régiment d’Infanterie Polonais</font>5e Régiment d’Infanterie Polonais</font>6e Régiment d’Infanterie Polonais</font>13e Compagnie de Pionniers</font>2e Groupe de Reconnaissance de Division d'Infanterie Polonais</font>3e Régiment d'Artillerie Polonaise (3 Bn of 75mm??)</font>2e Régiment d’Artillerie Lourde Polonaise (3 Bn of 155mm C??)</font>10/2e Compagnie Anti Chars</font>Compagnie de Sapeurs-Mineurs 186/1</font>Compagnie de Sapeurs-Mineurs 86/2</font>Compagnie Télégraphique 186/81</font>Compagnie Radio 186/82</font>Compagnie Automobile 386/44</font>2e Brigade de Spahis (not sure this unit was still fully attached. I have conflicting sources ) A first rate outfit. Motorized. Lacked artillery. </font>7e Régiment de Spahis Algériens (this unit was definitely interned in CH)</font>9e Régiment de Spahis Algériens</font> 147e Régiment d'Artillerie Lourde (Usually 2-3 Bns of 105 or 155) 2e Demi-Brigade de Chasseurs Pyrénéens(probably just 2 Bns of mountain troops). 23e Demi-Brigade Alpine Légère (probably just 2 Bns of mountain troops). 52e Groupe de Reconnaissance de Corps d'Armée II/248e Régiment de Pionniers II/418e Régiment de Pionniers III/116 Régiment d'Artillerie Lourde (Usually 1 Bn of 105 or 155) IV/159 Régiment d'Artillerie Automobile (Probably 75mm motorized artillery) For the notation (at least as I understand it ): ROMAN/ARABIC (e.g. III/321) means 3rd Bn, 321st Regiment ARABIC/ARABIC (eg 241/1) means 1st Coy, 241st Regiment. Do you need more details (e.g. the TO&E of the Bn's etc)? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted January 16, 2005 Author Share Posted January 16, 2005 Great information Winkelried, if you might have any more info on any of the following units I'd appreciate it. (Without any specifics on which troops outran the 1st Panzer I'll take a look at an odd assortment) 67e 10/52e Compagnie Anti Chars (6 x 47mm ATG “biflèches” The best the French had) 2e 2e Groupe de Reconnaissance de Division d'Infanterie Polonais 10/2e Compagnie Anti Chars Spahis 7e Régiment de Spahis Algériens Thanks again 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkelried Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 here we go 7e 10/52e Compagnie Anti Chars (6 x 47mm ATG “biflèches” The best the French had) All I know, is its armament. Maybe similar to the 10/2e below. 2e 2e Groupe de Reconnaissance de Division d'Infanterie Polonais You'll find a good description here 10/2e Compagnie Anti Chars Normally this would be a divisional AT coy with 12 ATGs. It could have been anything from 25mm, 37mm, 47mm to older 75mm guns. Here a possible TO&E Escadron Divisionnaire de 25m/m Anti-Chars Spahis 7e Régiment de Spahis Algériens This regiment had </font>four Escadrons de Fusiliers (Motorised Infantry Squadron with 18 LMGs, 4 HMGs, 1 60mm Mortar - and some sources claim one 75mm gun -, 2 25mm ATGs) organized in two batallions .</font>one Escadron de Mitrailleuses et d'Engins d'Accompagnement (Heavy Weapons Squadron) with 8 HMGs, 2 81mm mortars, 6 25mm ATGs and possible 4 27mm AAGs.</font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted March 25, 2005 Author Share Posted March 25, 2005 Thanks again for this information Winkelried. I've finally gotten this scenario into production. Small Battle 1 Pz Div Helvetia 1940 An exit scenario with the Polish moving for the Swiss border while elements of the 1st Panzer Division try to cut them off. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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