Ernst Barkmann grogs needed

[John Kettler]

If the description in Night Drive to Manhay is correct, Barkmann killed a Sherman with his Nahverteidigungswaffe, a first in my book. Can any grog shed light on this remarkable kill, please?

http://www.davidpentland.com/ernst_barkmann.htm

Regards,

John Kettler

[ November 28, 2007, 05:10 PM: Message edited by: John Kettler ]

[Heinrich505]

John Kettler,

A quick search on the internet got me this site, which quotes Barkmann himself on the incident in David Pentland's painting.

http://www.geocities.com/alkantolga/panzerace/ernst.htm - 55k

"Fifty metres away, on the right, there was a tank which had moved in, with its commander standing in the turret, and which was apparently waiting for me. Frauscher! I moved up to the tank on its left-hand side. As soon as both turrets were on a level with each other, I gave orders to stop and turn off the motor and started to speak. But in a flash my opposite number disappeared inside the turret and the hatches clanged shut. My neighbour's driver's hatch lifted and then was lowered again. I noticed a winecoloured panel light. But the Panther had a green one. Then I knew that the tank alongside us was an American Sherman.

'Headphones on, I shouted on the tank intercom: "Gunner! The tank alongside is an enemy one. Fire at it". Within seconds, the tank turret turned to the right and the long gun barrel banged against the turret of the Sherman. Gunner to commander: "Can't fire - turret traverse stuck". The driver, SS-Rottenfuehrer Grundmeyer, had been listening and, without any order being given, he started up the motor and pulled back a few yards. Whereupon SS-Unterscharfuehrer Poggendorf, the gunner, loosed off the Panzergranate into the middle of the rear of the enemy tank at a distance of a few yards. I was still standing in the tank turret. A blue flame sprang out from the circular hole in the rear of the Sherman. As I took cover inside the turret 1 heard the detonation."

My "library" is somewhat limited on the Ardennes, as I have mainly focused on the eastern front, but I do have Stackpole's Military History Series, "Armor Battles of the Waffen-SS" On page 206, Obersharfuhrer Barkmann gives an action report, which reads pretty much like that site I marked above, except that on page 208, when Barkmann encounters the unidentified tank, only to discover it is a Sherman, the only difference in this account is that they backed up "a few paces" and put an antitank shell into the rear of the Sherman, at a distance of 1 meter.

All the details are exactly the same, the striking point being the rear of the Sherman, except that one quoted account says a Panzergranate (probably the Nahverteidigungswaffe) referred to in Pentland's painting, but the other account in Will Fey's book says an antitank shell. They seem to be in conflict, although one can surmise that, based on the length of the barrel of a Panther, Barkmann's tank would have had to back up a lot more than "a few paces" to clear their barrel, and even further to get far enough to the rear of the Sherman to fire into it using the main gun. Both situations report that the gun barrel could not be brought to bear, because the two tanks were too close together, and when Barkmann's crew rotated the turret, their barrel struck the Sherman's turret.

In addition to that, Fey might have figured that the average person reading the account would not be familiar with the Nahverteidigungswaffe defense system, so he merely substituted antitank shell as something convenient that would serve the account in a simplified manner, instead of having to explain what a Panzergranate was.

Sorry, John, but that is all I could come up with at present. The painting is a nice one, and I'd love to have it, but can't afford that for now. Maybe when I win the lottery....ha ha.

Heinrich505

[John Kettler]

Heinrich505,

Thanks for replying! It's been a grueling day, so forgive me if I'm slow on the uptake. If I'm following your argument, though, it seems that you're saying that he really did get the kill with the Nah, but with no real explanation of how in the accounts you've got. OTOH, as you rightly note, a few paces wouldn't have been enough to clear the gun barrel on the Panther.

Are we then to conclude the Nah put one right into the open hatch on the Sherman, in turn causing a hole to be blown in the Sherman's turret rear, or instead believe that something's wrong with the accounts and that the Sherman died via a PzGr39 enema, making the Nah's inclusion a really bad garble? Barkmann's account would definitely support the PZGr29 enema scenario.

Regards,

John Kettler

[John D Salt]

Originally posted by Heinrich505:

[snips]

All the details are exactly the same, the striking point being the rear of the Sherman, except that one quoted account says a Panzergranate (probably the Nahverteidigungswaffe) referred to in Pentland's painting, but the other account in Will Fey's book says an antitank shell. They seem to be in conflict,

The difficulty I have with this is that "anti-tank shell" and "panzergranate" are not in conflict. They are the English and German words for exactly the same thing. I can't remember who it was who said "The Germans call it a messer, the French call it a couteau, and we call it a knife, which, after all, is what it actually is", but unless you believe him there is no conflict here.

The simplest explanation that requires us to believe in the fewest fairies at the bottom of anyone's garden is that the person writing the caption for the Pentland painting has made a mistake in recounting the incident. He has already made one mistake in glossing "panzergranate" incorrectly.

I wonder, has anyone in the forum ever mentioned the principle that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"?

All the best,

John.

[PzKpfwIII]

Originally posted by Heinrich505:

Sorry, John, but that is all I could come up with at present. The painting is a nice one, and I'd love to have it, but can't afford that for now. Maybe when I win the lottery....ha ha.

Postcard size prints of all of Pentland's military art is routinely available on ebay for a couple of pounds sterling apiece (depending on bidding); I have a copy of the print in question, so I know that it is available. Just search for "Pentland" on ebay and you should see the listings.

http://cgi.ebay.com/German-military-tank-art-PC-Barkmann-Ardennes-Manhay_W0QQitemZ200179316799QQihZ010QQcategoryZ69700QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem

The postcard in question is available at the above URL.

[Heinrich505]

John Kettler,

My impression from reading the accounts, was that something (either an AT shell or the Nah projectile) penetrated the rear of the hull of the Sherman, not the turret, and not through an open hatch. I didn't check the Nahverteidigungswaffe sites too closely, as they mainly showed pictures of the weapon from the vehicle interior, but some shells were shown that were used, one being a contact fuse shell and one being a timed fuse shell. The timed one would have been the standard to use for rushing infantry, as you'd get an airburst. While the contact fuse one was HE, if fired directly into the rear engine compartment of a Sherman at close range, it should cause some sort of damage that would result in a fire, thus causing their crew to bail. We all know of the legendary ability of the Shermans to burn, if even looked at crossly, thus the nickname "Ronson." This, of course, would require some ability to aim the Nah, which didn't appear possible from some of the posted photos.

Barkmann's crew would have had AP in the breech, I'm guessing, knowing they were going in harms way and would encounter US tanks. If the driver put the Panther in reverse and gassed it, he might have jerked the tank far enough back to clear the Panther muzzle past the rear of the Sherman, at which point the gunner would have an easy shot at the rear hull of the Sherman. It would have been point blank, whether AT or Nah.

Another piece of the puzzle was whether or not the Sherman crew did anything besides slam the hatches. Nothing was mentioned on that matter. If the Sherman did try to drive forward, it would have been easier for the Panther crew, who were driving in reverse, to then quickly line up the barrel at the rear of the Sherman. Did they (the US crew) sit there quietly, hoping the Panther would just drive off? I'd have ordered my driver to fire up, gass it, and go in any direction possible, or, order everyone out as fast as possible before the Sherman started brewing up from a direct hit. We'll never know for sure, unless Barkmann himself, or his crew, clears up the question. Still, some amazing things happened in combat. Reportedly, one of Wittmann's tank shells went through an allied tank and blew up one further away, destroying both for a 2 for 1 shot.

Heinrich505

[John Kettler]

PzkpfwIII,

I can't make style tags work on my rig, but use this to keep long URLs small enough to not "bloom" the page.

www.tinyurl.com

Heinrich505,

Thanks for your additional comments. Looks like nothing definitive either way.

Regards,

John Kettler