narishma Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 Lo all Got a question concerning panzers for you all. Back in the Stone Age I used to play Steel Panthers III. There a Pz Recon Company had either 4 PzIVC-F's or 4 PzIIIn's attached. Now I am working my way thru a campaign (RobO) using a Brigade Aufklärungs Company with 4 PzIV's attached. 1) Did these companies have tanks attached? 2) If so, which tank models would be available and within what timeframe for the different models/versions? Thank you for your time 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzman Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 The Germans tended to send Recon troops out with armored cars, rather than tanks. It would really depend on what year you are looking at. In 1941 though I would think that most if not all would tend to use 223 AC's. Later on recon units even used Panzer II's for that. There could be tanks attached I'm sure, but it would really depend on the situation and the roll the Aufklarungs company was being used in. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Hi Narishma Yes and no Fascinating how such straightforward questions rarely results in like answers. First off, there were no companies using medium tanks in the recon role. And the Panzerbrigade within the Panzerdivision had no brigade level recon units (but the late war independent Panzerbrigades did, same as the regiment as described below, as they had no access to divisional recon, nor regimental recon). However. A) The Panzerregiment HQ company initially contained a light tank platoon used for recce. It also contained an intelligence platoon that normally had 2 medium tanks, but of the Befehlswagen models. Eventually, the light tank platoon was (supposed to be) replaced by a Aufklärungszug proper, containing medium tanks of the same type as the regiment used. Organised as any other tank platoon of that model. The intelligence platoon still had its two Befehlswagen models. The Panzerabteilung HQ contained the same setup, only combined in a "Nachrichten und Aufklärungszug". This platoon were also initiually light tanks, eventually medium tanks of the same type used in the battallion. Both of these could provide the 4 medium tanks you mention, for recce duty. They were not however attached to any recce company. To find recce companies in the German army, we need recce battallions. None contained medium tanks at any point during the war, regardless of arm of service. Speaking regulation organisation, the Germans used eight different models of organisation for recce companies throughout the war. 4 in effect at any one time - two armoured car models and two infantry models (i.e. SPW or other vehicle) of organisation. You'll find their exact setup in the K.St.N series 1112 (infantry with wheel transport, gets updated and has a B and C variant), 1113 (infantry with halftracks and a variant for Kübelwagen, is updated three times) and 1162 (armoured car, one update and five variants A-E). And attached K.A.N. tables. Did it help or merely confuse the issue? Cheerio Dandelion [Edited away some embarassing typos] [ July 22, 2004, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: Dandelion ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 ...I should perhaps add that it was per order of November 1943 that the light tank platoons of the HQ companies were to be replaced by medium tank platoons. So no sooner than that would medium tanks appear at all in a dedicated recon role, and orders took time implementing, if implemented at all. Force recce is another thing worth mentioning. Pending an attack, or as prelude to one, Panzer units could probe enemy positions using their regular panzer units. This was done in a recce intent, feeling for weak spots. Though it was more common to use infantry for such purpouses. This on units probing enemy positions directly in front of them. Recce deeper than that, i.e. tactical and operational recce, had to be carried out by specialist units, i.e. at least divisional recce units. Cheerio again Dandelion Edited away more bloody typos... [ July 22, 2004, 07:35 PM: Message edited by: Dandelion ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 I would also add that Recon companies were not used exclusively for recon and often found themselved defending frontage that was not expecting major attack. If it did come under a determined attack, having some medium tanks show up to reenforce the position would not be at all unreasonable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vossiewulf Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 I would like to add that Dandelion appears to have won the thread with a Major. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 LOL! This is co-op mode Vossie. If Narishma found what he was looking for we all win. And if he didn't, we all lose. Cheers Dandelion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narishma Posted July 23, 2004 Author Share Posted July 23, 2004 Whoa, got what I needed even if it was somewhat disappointing. *turns around and orders the panzer platoon to get lost* From your answers and my service experience I also gather that recce duty hasnt evolved much since WWII. (at least not in Sweden..) So I guess we all hit paydirt. Again, thanks.. *Grumbles something incomprehensible about KV-1s and 37mm PAKs* 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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