Lift for German 1st Mnt. Div.?

[DTrill]

Looking at the German 1st Mountain Division in '41 and I have a couple questions. First, in the division's AT Battalion is a listing for 20mm AA protection that is motorized, would this be 20mm flak guns with lift, and what type of lift would this be or would this AA be provided by Sd Kfz 10/4's? Secondly, the Engineer Battalion has one Company that is motorized as well and the three AT Companies are also motorized, what vehicle would provide the lift here? I see that the artillery is all horsedrawn so that is not an issue. Any help would be great.

[JasonC]

If the listing is specifically Sf, then it means self propelled rather than just motorized, and would indicate single 20mm Flak on light halftrack chassis. If it only indicates motorized, it means trucks towing 20mm Flak, again single barrel types, 4 to a battery.

As for the rest, they would be trucks. I've seen photos of 1st GB trucks in 1941, and they include Bussing NAG and MAN Z models. To western eyes, typical medium trucks, like a US 2 1/2.

It was typical for the panzerjaegers to be the only motorized formation in a leg infantry division. Sometimes a so-called "fast" unit would be formed around it, by moving only a portion of the actual PAK and instead lifting a company or two of infantry. This was more common later in the war, though - 1943-4, on defense, as a reaction reserve.

[DTrill]

Thanks Jason, I was thinking, it being a Mountain Division, that it might be much more reliant on horses and have the motorized label as more of a formal thing.

[Andreas]

Originally posted by JasonC:

It was typical for the panzerjaegers to be the only motorized formation in a leg infantry division. Sometimes a so-called "fast" unit would be formed around it, by moving only a portion of the actual PAK and instead lifting a company or two of infantry. This was more common later in the war, though - 1943-4, on defense, as a reaction reserve.

Actually, it was already common at least by the time of the French campaign to form so-called Vorausabteilungen (VA - Forward Detachments) based on the motorised parts of the division. The VA of 1. Gebirgsdivision contributed significantly to the encirclement battle around Uman. It was the only way the division had to keep the retreating enemy unbalanced. You can check the relevant campaign histories by Hans Steets (three volumes on the 1941 campaign), or the book by Teske on the 12. Infanteriedivision on the assembly and use of VAs in otherwise leg/horsemobile divisions.

You can find some pictures of 1. Gebirgsdivision trucks here.

I believe that not all the artillery was horse-drawn, since my memory (which maybe tricking me) tells me that the heavy battalion was motorised. I will check this tonight.

Jason is right regarding the indications, BTW. 'sf' means self-propelled, while 'motZ' means vehicle drawn.

All the best

Andreas

[DTrill]

I'll take a look at the link, thanks for the info guys. I have two references to the artillery, one being "horse drawn transport" the other saying that it was "pack animals" I assume horses, but there is no mention if different cal.s had different transport so you are probably right. I'll keep on checking around, see what I turn up.

[Andreas]

I just checked the Kriegsgliederung. The 4th battalion of the artillery regiment had motorised 15cm heavy field howitzers.

All the best

Andreas

[Zalgiris 1410]

I may be wrong Andreas but wasn't the 150mm field howitzer Battalion more of an attatchment unit to a GJD while the other three Battalions were pack animal drawn mountain guns 2 of 75mms & one of 105mm. I think that both these types were skoda makes.

The heavy 150mm howitzers were Motorised because they were figuratively in some way a Korps (in a generic sense) asset to be assigned to their respective GJDs when out of their formal Mountain terrain environment. Also considering that this heavy calibre did not consist of brake down into pack animal portable parts like real mountain artillery pieces, when a mountain chain was breached by the GJD this battalion would have to travel around the chain to catch up at some point later. Preferrably as quickly as possible though since they will be then most needed in the openning terrain yonder. Therefore they needed to be more highly mobile as a consequence, meaning motorized.

[DTrill]

I have a pre-war source showing both 2 and 3 75mm battalions, might be they were in a transition phase of changing from one setup to the other. In both cases though it shows the 150mm battalion as part of the arty. regiment, not an attachment, it does contradict itself by calling the 150mm a motorized battalion yet later on saying that it was horse drawn. I do not have any mention of 105mm pre-war, could have changed later, I guess.

[Andreas]

Originally posted by Zalgiris 1410:

I may be wrong Andreas

You are.

On the Kriegsgliederung in Steets' book it is labelled IV./79, which to me says it was an integral part of AR79, the artillery regiment of 1. Gebirgsdivision. If it had been Heerestruppen as you suggest, it would have had a separate number and designation, such as these here.

All the best

Andreas

[Zalgiris 1410]

Originally posted by Andreas:

On the Kriegsgliederung in Steets' book it is labelled IV./79, which to me says it was an integral part of AR79, the artillery regiment of 1. Gebirgsdivision.

OK, Andreas thank you for the clarity!

My thinking was based on my understanding of the 3rd GJD or rather the one regiment part of it that was taken from Artic Finnland and deployed on the main front near Velikiye Luki and later further with AG South.

I may be confussing things about the Heavy Artillery Battalions of GJDs, but AFAIK my earlier explainationof the reasoning behind why they were moterized as aposed to horse drawn is correct.