Russian defense

[Bruceov]

Im getting chewed up pretty badly with the russians on defense. What would be a good force pick for QB with 800 or 1250 points. and what tactics should I use while playing Russian

[walpurgis nacht]

what year, restrictions, terrain? everything just depends.

Almost all russian infantry are superior to german infantry at 40 meters. Most players just fortify and stay put. . . this is always a mistake on defense. Ambush-fall back, ambush-fall back. . . .never let him setup and support his attack with HE, etc.

Timing is everything . . .get good with the pause function, always anticipating enemy moves. Give your ambush infantry movement orders every turn, but make the command delay 60+ seconds, so they can move instantly if you need to. You can always cancel the orders beginning of next turn, or change the command from "sneak" to "assualt" for example, or drag the waypoint . . whatever. You have more options to act on things instantly this way.

Generally, the best defense is layered. AT guns in depth. Preferably a mobile armor reserve to fill in where the main thrust(s) is.

Russian pioneers are cheap. Split you pioneer squads, take the demo carrying halves, and hide them close to likely armor paths, but away from where enemy infantry might move through. Split squads have their morale decreased a bit, but they hide much better. Make sure to use hotkey "d" in the setup phase to get rid of foxholes for hiding pioneer squads. Otherwise, the enemy will likely see the foxhole and surprise is lost.

Otherwise, more info is needed to answer this question.

[ June 18, 2003, 01:07 AM: Message edited by: Walpurgis Night ]

[laxx]

i am no expert but the following micro-level stuff works for me:

* buy green SMG troops because they are cheap and straight shooting doesn't need veterans

* instead of fighting by attrition, hide your troops until the enemy is at the doorstep. The SMG blast will most likely route the first batch of attackers. (i have achieved contact as close as 20 meters in Yelnia Stare as Germans)

* buy Anti-Tank Gun and more importantly, buy Target Reference Point (TRP). They are give high accuracy when used properly.

* I like the earlier suggestion of ambush-fall-back, and I am gonna try it, but I fear that the loss of the fox hole protection negates the mobility.

hope it works for you.

[walpurgis nacht]

Originally posted by laxx:

I fear that the loss of the fox hole protection negates the mobility.

No way in hell. Forget about foxholes. Compared to woods they only give a few percentage points exposure bonus anyway. Use foxholes for "alamo" positions (for a last stand), but otherwise just forget about them. Ambush-fallback will win the game for you by using your advantage as the defender, over and over . . . .surprise/initiative.

The absolute last thing you want is to go head to head with the attacker, square on, when he has numerical superiority. Against a good attacker there is no way to win by fortifying a line and staying put.

[Hans]

http://www.ocstrengthinhonor.com/Downloads/Duffers%20Drift.pdf

Above is a URL to a page with Duffers Drift on it, a good primer on defense.

I would add to the excellent suggestions above. Along with TRPs, artillery and mortars can really break up an enemy attack, especially dismounted.

HQs linked with mortars on the map can deal with a number of threats.

Keep a line of outposts in front of your main ambush points - they are to keep out recon forces who will trip the surprize to soon.

A selected use of mines will put a certain fear factor in the mind of the other player.

The best thing is to rotate the map and look at the victory flags and the terrain. Try and determine where the enemy will come (dismounted and mounted avenues of advance in military speak).

If you have mobile forces a spoiling attack or sharp counter-counter attack into the flank or his rear will give you victory. (attackers often leave their flanks and own areas unguarded)

Never forget the value of the reverse slope defense!

Good luck

[Nippy]

Being the Soviet-O-Phile that I am, I'll throw in my two cents:

TRPs and Artillary - Great for busting up enemy attacks. Even conscript spotters can call strikes down on a TRP in a minute or less. 9 Tube 81mm and 76.2mm are great for breaking up attacks by infantry. The large tube count gives the bombardment a short of "shotgun" effect in that you pepper a large area in a short time. Smoke should also be considered in the use of blinding support weapons.

50mm mortars - I love these little fellows. With double the ammo count (64) of their german counter part, they make for a great support weapons buster.

AT rifles - Not to be dicounted. They are cheap, easy to hide, and do a great job of making tanks button up and ACs/HT back off.

Troop placement - Never setup right on top of a VL, you are inviting losses from a prep bombardment.

Recon and MLR - I always have a few "feelers" in front of my main line of resistance. Paring up a Sniper (has binocluars) with a tank hunter team (SMGs give nice firepower) are cheap and can provide you with good intel and can spring some nasty ambushes on the enemy.

(I once had a Tank hunter sniper combo that was stuck behind enemly lines take out an enemy atrillary spotter.)

Trenches - If nothing else, they make great protection for heavy support weapons like AT guns, Mortars, and HMGs. However, they are a bit expensive and you ususaly can't buy enough to entrench all of your troops.

AT guns and nerves of steel - Seeing as Soviet AT guns lag behind their German counter parts, barring exceptions like the 85mm AA or 100mm BS-3, you should let the tanks get as close as possable before opening fire. Ballance that with having as many AT guns un-hide at once as you can. The more you split the enemy's fire, the better.

Hiding - When on the defence, I order all units except AT rifles, Snipers, and high level HQs to hide. Rifle platoon's taking pot shots at enemy units and giving away your MLR location is a very bad thing.

MRL - The main line of resistace. Now an ambush and fall back plan is good, but not always possalbe. What one should do is try to wear down (ie inflict losses) on as much of the enemy force as you can before they get to you MRL.

Flame throwers - With a 45 meter reach they have a nice anti-tank capisity. Even Panthers and King Tigers can be killed by a lowly FT team.

Road blocks and AT mines - I never had much use for AP mines myself. AT mines and raodblocks however do have their uses. Since a number of German tanks tend to bog much more that Russian ones, German players tend to stick to roads with the ground condidtions are "wet" or worse. To block a road, place a road block perpendicual to the road itself. at both ends of the roadblock, place one "patch" of AT mines. I've noticed that both AI and human plays never give road blocks a wide bearth when they go around them. So when the tanks drive around the road block *BOOM* there goes the tracks.

Cover arc command + Hide command - Learn it. Use it. Love it. nuff said...

[walpurgis nacht]

Originally posted by Nippy:

Hiding - When on the defence, I order all units except AT rifles, Snipers, and high level HQs to hide. Rifle platoon's taking pot shots at enemy units and giving away your MLR location is a very bad thing.

This is a mistake I see all too often. There is almost no reason ever to "hide" your units while defending. "Hiding" units cannot see. Keep absolutely all units up (AT guns . . everything), with short cover arcs if you don't want them to fire. This way, you can see the enemy approaching with many eyes (good intel is half the battle). You will remain out of sight, even if you are not "hiding" without exception, unless the enemy is within 10-15 meters. If you like, once he gets that close, go ahead and "hide", but by that time, you will likely want to open up anyway.

If I have a tank hunter in enemy territory and enemy infantry are passing close . . .this is a good time to "hide" (if you don't want to hit him, you wanna wait for a tank). Otherwise, the only other use for this command on defense is to help your "pinned" or "panicked" troops recover more quickly.

[ June 18, 2003, 05:15 AM: Message edited by: Walpurgis Night ]

[Monty]

Your right Walpurgis

In one of my last pbem battles, i was defending.

I had a platoon in a trench in woods.( bad choice btw, use trenches in open ground, that way the advantage is much better than in woods )

The platoon was hiding ( stupid )

Anyway, suddenly the enemy units were right in front and IN the trench.

The platoon had about 50 % casualties, before they could fight then enemy unit ( 2 squads ) back.

Monty

Never hide units on defense !

[walpurgis nacht]

Originally posted by Monty:

use trenches in open ground, that way the advantage is much better than in woods )

Trenches are useful in the open, mainly because you avoid treebursts and you can place units in the best positions, not being a slave to the natural cover. But, the main problem with this is once your squads and MGs in trenches are panicked, they "sneak" away into the open, to certain doom. Trenches in cover avoid this problem because you can hide to recover, or sneak around at will. The ideal situation is to place a trench in the open, but behind a "layer" of trees so you get the best of both worlds.

I reserve trenches in the open for overwatch units like HMGS and ATGs. With HMGs, place them in positions that are close to cover . . . .close enough so that when the enemy gets sound contacts, he assumes they are in the trees and "area targets" the wrong place every time.

I like to place trenches just cresting a hill, so that if your units in the trench panick, they will sneak back a few meters and be out of LOS. This can also be useful to relocate your HMGS once the enemy gets close enough to see the trench. Move a few meters, and you're safely behind a hill.

[mike_the_wino]

One trick for the MLR is to split all the squads held in reserve to build a foxhole network but still allows you to deploy units forward. That way when they fall back they have foxholes to use and you should have plenty of time to re-group broken up units before the attacker is upon you. I like the hotkey "d" for removing foxholes...guess ya learn something new everyday.

[JasonC]

Most others are giving generic defender advice, some of it sensible enough.

Russian defenders are typically strongest in the infantry and HE war, weaker in the armor and AT war. You want to plan on winning the infantry side of things. Then you just have to hold the armor war close enough to even to prevent that from tipping the whole scale.

Strength in the infantry war comes from large squads with generally excellent small arms, especially PPsHs. You can suppliment this natural advantage by

1. spending a high portion of your point budget on ordinary infantry

2. buying effective HE shooters, direct and indirect, to reduce German infantry strength

3. protecting your infantry with fortifications (trenches, sheltering behind AP mines or wire), and increasing the effectiveness of your HE with TRPs

4. holding large bodies of cover, too large for vehicles and ranged weapons to see through, behind LOS obstacles like ridgelines. Avoid areas that can be cut up by long lines of sight by German armor or heavy weapons.

5. using company sized infantry positions, not platoon sized ones. A single platoon can block one secondary approach route. But the main fighting positions should have e.g. 2 rifle and 1 SMG platoon plus a company HQ. One fire mission and one platoon should not be able to take a defended area.

6. dodging large caliber indirect fire missions, by using alternate foxhole positions, away from enemy observation. When you see the spotting round, run 100-200m back and wait out the shelling. Also, spread enough (front to back especially - not everyone has to be up and in LOS at once) to avoid too many kills to one 150mm mission.

As for the armor war, the main difficulty tends to be getting AT assets that can kill thicker German AFVs, or getting flank shots with more readily available AT weapons. Cross fire is the main principle here.

But you also have to know unit capabilities, and against the typical cherry picked armor choices humans take, you often need to stretch for the best possible AT weapons. That can mean 57mm ATGs, for example. Or Valentine IXs, or SU-85s. Scan the unit list for items that "rolled" low rarity but have high AT ability.

Guns are the key item for typical Russian AT defenses. Infantry AT is limited, and your vehicles are often outclassed (outside of 1941). AFVs still matter, but they need gun help to succeed.

Pioneers are your best infantry AT (demo charges), but their range is too limited for anything but close ambush in built up areas. Against the AI they can get actual kills. Against humans they can force infantry to go first. The tank hunter teams are weak compared to pioneers.

As for the advice to split them, I disagree. The demos go with half, and the other has only rifles and is pretty much useless. It is better to keep the squad together for extra robustness under fire. It still takes 2 full squads of pioneers to equal a standard squad in infantry FP terms, if beyond the 30m range of the demo charges.

I find the practical way to use Russian pioneers is 2 full squads seperated by about 40m with an HQ centered behind them. Give them 30m covered arcs, without hiding. This acts as a sort of "demo minefield". Use hidden AT mines in small gaps between forests, these pioneer pairs to close somewhat larger ones.

The infantry firepower is enough to deal with a single squad if it comes close enough. If they get off a demo charge, they can even break a platoon of attackers - though they should fall back immediately afterward.

Russian LMGs have high ammo but very weak FP. They can be used as observation posts, and as "dummy" MG positions. They should fire at long ranges to remain sound contacts. Tank hunter teams can be used as "dummy" regular infantry positions. The life expectancy of either is low if enemy infantry gets within 100m.

Don't waste snipers this way, in forward LPs. They are too valuable, and they don't need to be close to be lethal. Use those instead as serious ranged weapons - along with maxim HMGs, mortars, and light guns. They are very hard to fully locate when firing from long range. That is their main protection.

The 45mm ATG and the 76mm infantry gun are both dirt cheap. Use lots of those, or fewer 76mm divisional guns in place of both.

You need flank shots to hurt anything above a halftrack with the 45s. But at longer range they are difficult to spot, beyond a sound contact. Instead of holding fire until close range, fire repeatedly at ranges over 750m. You can hide on alternate turns if you like, to make IDing the sound contact location harder. Once enemies are closer, you should only fire with a clear flank shot, preferably with only one enemy vehicle in sight.

76mm infantry guns should target covered areas you expect enemy infantry to reach. Especially buildings, or any trenches they might succeed in capturing. Flag locations with cover are another frequent target. HMGs and sniper compliment the infantry guns, by covering the open ground areas. The effect you want is to pin men in the open, drive them to overcrowd in the available bits of cover, then shell those with direct 76mm HE.

76mm divisional guns can do both jobs simultaneously. Their armor penetration is also superior, though still marginal at medium range against the 80mm thick varieties. They can kill the Pz IIIs, though, and Pz IVs with turret hits (if anyone uses them).

They have two drawbacks. They can be spotted (full ID) at longer range than the 45s, and they are more valuable, about twice the cost of either of the cheap gun types. You get fewer overall, making it easier for enemy mortars to take each out after it reveals itself.

57mm ATGs are even more valuable, and should only reveal themselves to kill the thickest enemy armor. You can rarely afford more than 1-2. But against e.g. Tigers, they can be invaluable.

With all of these guns, but especially the cheapest types, you have to be willing to push them around a bit to change your LOS picture. You do not want to set up with a wide LOS to everything. That just gets you killed by replies from mortars or multiple tanks.

Instead, keyhole your view to particular locations. But be ready to shift the gun 50-100m manually, to change the target. Only move inside of cover, though, or over short spots of dead ground.

1-2 jeeps can be a useful addition to a defense, to help relocate guns through dead ground areas, especially withdrawing those initially placed on lines of advance the German player just doesn't use.

ATRs are worth having just a few of - 2 or 4 - to keep the German player honest and restrict use of thin but efficient HE chuckers, like Grilles and SPW-251/9s. Fire at will at targets 250m away or more, or anything not more or less facing you and beyond 100m.

Penetration is not important. Thin stuff you will hurt regardless of range, thicker stuff you just want buttoning and gun-track damage. The key to them is their stealth, remaining a sound contact. So don't hold fire until close - that just loses them rapidly. Instead think in terms of using up the whole ammo load in low odds pinpricks.

As for defending AFVs, those with the most effective AT guns are the most useful. A close second are the plain T-34s (85s once available, something of both). Those kill only with flank shots against the heavy stuff. But they also eat any amount of infantry with their huge HE loads.

Use them behind cover, with angled sight lines to leading German infantry, without exposing them to German AFVs farther back. That tends to draw his tanks forward trying to get LOS to your tanks, to keep you from blasting his infantry whenever it tries to advance. Use that. Draw him past your guns, setting up flank shots. The tank is the bait and you expect him to see it.

As for FOs, others have recommended the light stuff, but I think if you've got a web of TRPs, the heavier the better. A 9x82 module is fine for covering the bits of forest you don't have TRP registered. 120s are my favorite for most purposes. A 120 treeburst doesn't just suppress people, it kills things.

Don't blow your FO ammo early, during the approach. Use only MGs, snipers, 50mm mortars, and light guns for that (the stuff that stays a "sound contact" or isn't seen at all). Wait until the enemy is clearly IDed in platoon strength or more inside one block of cover, immediately ahead of your own positions. Then hit them hard.

Understand that artillery suppresses 2-3 times as many as it kills, and without follow up most of the effects are gone 2-3 minutes later. You want to win an ongoing firefight, not make attackers duck briefly while they are still half a mile away and therefore in no danger.

It is easy to get buried in the minutae of all the seperate tactics. It is more important to make a defensive plan that includes integrated AT defense, and "cover denial" to attacking infantry.

The first means any place he can put a tank that can hit your squad infantry, you want to be able to shoot at that spot with AT something from 2 crossing angles.

The second means every spot of good infantry cover (25% or lower exposure) within 250m of your main infantry positions has something planned for it. 100m infantry fire into open ground, by a whole platoon. Or multiple HMGs into open ground lanes at 300m plus (to avoid spotting). Or a TRP on a large wood. Or a gun trained on a small one, or a building. Or AP mines turning one woods tile into a trap.

You don't have to defend everything, either ground or flags. Just the spots that are lethal to your main defenders - close enough cover for infantry, good LOS spots for tanks. Fire plans are meant above all to keep your own defenders alive - especially your infantry squads.

If the better part of a company of your infantry is left alive inside a sizeable block of cover late in the day, he won't get you out, and you will mess him up trying. Even if he takes flags on the flanks or wins the armor war.

Own the dense spots tanks can't get to, and make getting closer to those spots expensive. Especially for the German infantry. Break up his combined arms there - that is his weak link.

I hope this helps.

[zukkov]

jason, i'm impressed with your knowledge of tactics. myself, i'm more of a russian traditionalist. meaning i usually just line the men up and charge. lol.. seriously, it's one thing to know all the axiums of good tactics, it's another to see actual cases. i would love to read some aars of your games if you have any.

[Bruceov]

Thanbk you all