Neuer Art Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 Being a fan of the smaller, quicker scenarios, I decided to create one taking place in June 1944, where the Russians needed to take a heavy bridge spanning a river about 100m wide. The sole victory flag was on the German end of the bridge. There was no other way to get across the river. The Germans (a depleted mountain infantry company with a pair of HMG's) had some daisy-chain mines at both ends of the bridge, and were hidden along a forested ridge some 300m from the river. I had the AI control the Russians, which included a full mixed-arms company with three veteran AFV's (a SU-85 and a pair of T-34/85's). The scenario was a Russian Assault, and the Russians started out along the single paved road on the map, in some pine forests. The Russian infantry managed to reach the bridge before being forced back by HMG fire. The SU-85 was taken out by a recoilless 105mm gun before the latter was knocked out, and the two T-34's reached the Russian end of the bridge, at which point they just ... stopped. And parked. For 14 turns! The whole time, my German infantry was in waiting in ambush, with only the now-defunct 105mm RG and the two HMG's firing. I know the bridge was passable, as the road was level with the bridge and the Russian infantry was able to reach the center span, but the two tanks just ... sat. And sat. And ... yes, sat some more (and they were undamaged and definitely mobile, as they would occasionally rotate to try and find the HMG teams). I then edited the scenario to remove the daisy-chain mines, but the results were much the same, with the tanks parking at the near end of the bridge while the infantry actually made it to the far end before retreating. I know this has been mentioned in previous posts, but I wanted to let you folks know of yet another occurrence of AI-controlled tanks seemingly unwilling to cross a heavy bridge. What IS it about bridges that has the Russians so scared - some old wife's tale about trolls under the bridge or something?? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike the wino2 Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 I think this has been covered under the whole "AI sucks on the attack". I quit playing as defenders against the AI a long time ago. I don't think its a bug as much as the AI is limited in its ability to react to an unforeseen set of circumstances. Obviously the AI has issues if it assualts with inf and no armor support. BTW, what year are you playing that you have "trolls"? I have yet to see "Herr Uber-troll" in available in any QB's [ February 04, 2003, 06:00 PM: Message edited by: mike the wino ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest konrad Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 maybe i didn't understand you,so let me repeat: you claiming its a bug,that two russian tanks,after lost of friendly assault gun,and witnessing friendly infantry being pushed back by HMG fire,stopt for entire 14 turns(14 minuts). and they didn't even know ,what you know(germany infantry waiting in ambush).I will say the AI its amazing ,this kind of beheviour its most battle-like to me.try to analize this action again,this time from perspective of russian tanker. kisses konrad 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchildstein (ii) Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 it is extremely unlikely - or perhaps even impossible - that the ai will cross a bridge with vehicles in the attack... if you design an 'ai attacking with vehicles' scenario, it should not be a bridge crossing... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest konrad Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Originally posted by manchildstein II: it is extremely unlikely - or perhaps even impossible - that the ai will cross a bridge with vehicles in the attack... if you design an 'ai attacking with vehicles' scenario, it should not be a bridge crossing... yes,right but that I understand as a "feature",no a bug .suppose bigger bug will be when AI tanks will charge to the bridge ,in front of infantry,just to get shot in open.in bridge crossing tanks role can be only as a support of infantry,and thats how i think its modelled. kisses konrad 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neuer Art Posted February 5, 2003 Author Share Posted February 5, 2003 Good points made about armor not advancing without infantry suppport. I was thinking of the blitzkrieg days of the 1940 French campaign, and the opening months of Barbarossa the following year, when it was not uncommon for Panzer spearheads to outpace the supporting columns of infantry, in their haste to cover as much ground as possible and to perform the encircling operations for which they were famous. I'd envisioned a scenario where the Russians attempted to do the same in pushing their armor across the bridge to capture it and to exit from the board on the far side. From reading this and related topics, apparently the AI is too cautious and methodical to do lightning strikes. On something of a tangent, perhaps one of the experienced modders could alter the appearance of a paved road BMP so it looks like a low bridge or even a causeway, with water lapping up against its sides? That way we could model bridge scenarios where the AI is less reluctant to send across its armor when it "sees" a section of road, not a bridge. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhammer Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Has anyone consider making 'fake' bridges for scenarios like this? Make your river, but where you want the bridge, place land tiles, and pave it. Maybe they will cross that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest konrad Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Originally posted by Neuer Art: [QB] []... I'd envisioned a scenario where the Russians attempted to do the same in pushing their armor across the bridge to capture it and to exit from the board on the far side. From reading this and related topics, apparently the AI is too cautious and methodical to do lightning strikes. I'm getting you point:), maybe closest solution its place victory location right on top of bridge... otherwise manchildstein II is right konrad [ February 05, 2003, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: lenakonrad ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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