Michael Dorosh Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 Originally posted by PzKfw V Ausf G: [QB]A possible solution to this would be if the depot would allow users to create packs "on-site" much like the amazon (book) lists.This is being discussed currently in another thread. It's an excellent suggestion. Also it would be nice if the searchresults were sorted on "no. of reviews x review average" instead of the (non-existant) sorting is has right now.Another good, constructive suggestion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UberFunBunny Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 Michael Dorosh: You wrote in a previous thread: "[Admiral Keth wrote: it is designed is so that you HAVE to download each scenario seperately] That IS the entire point (duh) and I would suggest you are the one beyond help, since the reasoning for this has been stated several times over." And now you write that downloading multiple scenarios in a pack is an "excellent suggestion." Wonders never cease. Anyways, I look forward to increased functionality at the Scenario Depot. An excellent site may just get even better! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 Actually, this whole thread looks like it could be heading for some sort of amicable conclusion. A consummation devoutly to be wished for. The work of the Modders is brilliant, and beautiful, and enriches the community that plays this game. But the work of the Scenario Designers helps keep this game alive, and vital, and always moving forward. It is part of the genius of BFC that they gave the community that plays the game the ability to create scenarios. And it is truly a mark of an exceptional community that so many are willing, with no compensation other than the enjoyment or praise of others, to spend so much time making maps, and scenarios for this game. Sod all this discussion of 'laws', and screw the discussion of 'intellectual property'. What is important here is the simple, bloody Courtesy. Nothing more, and nothing less. Respect the wishes of the Scenario Designer. You lot who think that 'it's maybe just as well if people go ahead and do whatever they feel like with the work of other people without permission': Get stuffed. No Mod Designer or Scenario Designer gets paid for the work they do for this community. The only thing they get is a feeling of satisfaction if what they've created is received well, gets some praise, or at least helps them on towards that sort of affirmation. The very least anyone can do is to make sure, before handling the work of these people in any way, that they contact them and let them know what you intend. All this pissing about over 'intellectual property', and 'enforceable copyright' and 'the good of the many, as opposed to the rights of the few' is so much annoying ****e. Simple courtesy is what governs all such questions. If you play the scenario, or use the mod, and like it, let the author know. If not, and you can see some way to better it, give them feedback. If you want to distribute their work, then contact them for permission. If you can't reach them, or they don't respond, then don't use it. If they ask you not to use it, don't. If they give you permission, than do. I can't believe this sodding discussion's been resurrected. I have even further difficulty believing that anyone is so brain-dead that the simple answer of 'courtesy' doesn't serve to answer the whole discussion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 Originally posted by UberFunBunny: Michael Dorosh: You wrote in a previous thread: "[Admiral Keth wrote: it is designed is so that you HAVE to download each scenario seperately] That IS the entire point (duh) and I would suggest you are the one beyond help, since the reasoning for this has been stated several times over." And now you write that downloading multiple scenarios in a pack is an "excellent suggestion." Wonders never cease. Anyways, I look forward to increased functionality at the Scenario Depot. An excellent site may just get even better!Do try and keep up with the whole conversation. Read my caveat to the endorsement of a shopping cart at the depot, in the other thread, then tell me where the inconsistencies lie. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 And once again, Seanachai, you have nailed it on the head. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 Originally posted by Panzer76: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Andreas: There are international agreements on this. Would you care to point us to which law you mean? As it is with almost every law, some countries doesnt sign it, which in a internet sense of case, renders the law dead. Because then the "illigal" data could be hosted by a server in a country which didnt sign the agreement.</font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UberFunBunny Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: Read my caveat to the endorsement of a shopping cart at the depot, in the other thread, then tell me where the inconsistencies lie.Your "caveat", does this support the single scenario download or the multiple scenario pack? You have completely contradicted yourself in two statements, so please outline which form of download you prefer -- and how this relates to your "caveat". The only thing I see mentioned by you in the other thread is download stats. Previously the discussion was about reviews -- remember, you thought that the single scenario download was the "entire point" of the Scenario Depot site, ostensibly to get people to read and write reviews. So really your only consistency is your inconsistency. On the subject of reviews, a good idea would be to include a shortcut to the actual review page for each scenario in the user’s multiple scenarios shopping basket. This way it would be easy for the user to go straight to the relevant review pages because the shortcut files would be downloaded to the same directory as the scenario files. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hortlund Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 Originally posted by Seanachai: I can't believe this sodding discussion's been resurrected. I have even further difficulty believing that anyone is so brain-dead that the simple answer of 'courtesy' doesn't serve to answer the whole discussion.Courtesy is given out of respect. When courtesy is demanded by someone, or when someone feels he doesnt get the level of respect he so richly deserves, and starts to demand certain levels of respect it is a whole different matter. IF said someone then starts to cling to various legal arguments in his attempt to justify his claim for respect it becomes truly pathetic. There are lots of people who take themselves too seriously. Especially in my line of work you meet these people everyday. And it is frustrating as he** to have to deal with people like that. I have enormous respect for people who make mods, scenarios or operations. The level of professionalism is astounding in a couple of scenario and mod makers. But when some of those scenario makers starts acting like ballerina primadonnas demanding this or that, I lose some of that respect. Instead I see vanity. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 Originally posted by UberFunBunny: Your "caveat", does this support the single scenario download or the multiple scenario pack? Go read it and stop seeing inconsistencies where none exist. I mentioned that any scenario added to a shopping cart should have its download stats amended accordingly. Let me know if you understand this concept or not. You have completely contradicted yourself in two statements, so please outline which form of download you prefer -- and how this relates to your "caveat". The only thing I see mentioned by you in the other thread is download stats. Previously the discussion was about reviews -- remember, you thought that the single scenario download was the "entire point" of the Scenario Depot site, ostensibly to get people to read and write reviews.Exactly. So really your only consistency is your inconsistency.No inconsistency exists. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 Originally posted by Leutnant Hortlund: I have enormous respect for people who make mods, scenarios or operations. The level of professionalism is astounding in a couple of scenario and mod makers. But when some of those scenario makers starts acting like ballerina primadonnas demanding this or that, I lose some of that respect. Instead I see vanity.Or rather termed, "ego." And why not? Ego is inherent to human nature, and pride in one's work is a part of ego. Perhaps there are those who believe that scenario and mod makers are able to contribute without having to feel satisfaction for what they offer, on how it is received. The demonstrated history just on this forum, however, is almost always the opposite. Ego, taken to extreme, is corrosive vanity, but otherwise can be a great motivator for one to seek a higher standard in his personal work, or to always strive for improvement later on. Michael was NOT acting like a "ballerina primadonna." He didn't tell El Cid not to create scenario packs, nor insulted or belittled what El Cid was trying to do. Michael asked, straight up, for his OWN scenarios to be removed, as was fully his right to do. And if El Cid doesn't let "ego" get the best of him in turn, he will realize that this forum will lay out a big fat welcome mat to him to participate in, if he so chooses. Many indeed did thank El Cid earlier for his concept and his efforts. 'Nuff said, hope now this topic thread fades out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward Windsor Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: Why is Hortlund even participating in these discussions?Oo, oo! I think I know the answer to this one! Please, Miss! Because it's a public forum and we're all entitled to have an opinion? Because what we're saying may not be right, but we all have the right to express it? Can I have a star? Teddy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 Originally posted by Edward Windsor: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: Why is Hortlund even participating in these discussions?Oo, oo! I think I know the answer to this one! Please, Miss! Because it's a public forum and we're all entitled to have an opinion? Because what we're saying may not be right, but we all have the right to express it? Can I have a star? Teddy</font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hortlund Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: Was he expressing an opinion, or merely passing judgement on something he has no direct relevant experience with?Maybe this would be a good opportunity for you to tell everybody what you know about me and my "relevant experience" Michael? Go on now. How many scenarios have I made? How many campaigns? How many of my scenarios can be downloaded from the internet? Since you obviously dont know anyting about me, why the attempted low blow? I dont get it. If you have something to say, then say it instead of dancing around the subject. [ January 18, 2003, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: Leutnant Hortlund ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 Now that is funny 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward Windsor Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: Dear Mr Dorosh, B*gg*r. Foiled again. It's the dunce's hat for me and I fear I'll be feeling Miss's cool hand on my hot cheeks again. Obviously I wasn't aware that Lt Hortlund had violated the terms of the agreement and I apologise unreservedly for my totally uninformed posting earlier. I am, yours etc, Edward 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hortlund Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 Relax lad. The point Mr Dorosh was trying to make is that there is no such thing as freedom of speech or freedom of opinion on boards like these. If the owners of the board doesnt like what we are saying, they can edit our posts or ban us from these boards. Didnt you look at the user agreement when you created your account? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danzig Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 So...you guys are trying to say that there are other scenarios besides the ones included on the CD? Will wonders never cease! Overall, why do you scenario designers think you create custom scenarios? Is it to see your work being played and admired by others? Is it because it's a wonderful creative outlet for your love of this game and/or the history of this war? Or do you do it just for fun? I know there's not one definitive answer for all of you, but I was just wondering in general why one goes through the lengthy process of creating custom scenarios... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UberFunBunny Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: No inconsistency exists.In your mind maybe, but you still haven't explained how you can be AGAINST users downloading multiple scenario packs and at the same time saying that downloading these packs is an EXCELLENT idea. Is it a case that you have changed your position 180 degrees, but are, for reasons unknown to us mere mortals, unable to admit this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenGriffon Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 Well at least nobody has resorted to sarcasm yet! Can't you guys just agree to disagree? Take a few deep breaths and relax a bit. You're not accomplishing anything with this discussion, unless bad feelings are your ultimate goal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UberFunBunny Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 GreenGriffon: I think that when someone takes an aggressive stance in these forums and then cannot back it up with rational logic it is up to others to point this out -- otherwise these forums are of no use whatsoever. Look at the title of this thread; I hope the way El Cid has been treated does not remain the norm. [ January 18, 2003, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: UberFunBunny ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 Originally posted by UberFunBunny: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: No inconsistency exists.In your mind maybe, but you still haven't explained how you can be AGAINST users downloading multiple scenario packs and at the same time saying that downloading these packs is an EXCELLENT idea. Is it a case that you have changed your position 180 degrees, but are, for reasons unknown to us mere mortals, unable to admit this?</font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward Windsor Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 Originally posted by Leutnant Hortlund: Didnt you look at the user agreement when you created your account?I leave all the smallprint to the lawyers... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UberFunBunny Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 This is what I wrote originally: Michael Dorosh wrote: "[Admiral Keth wrote: it is designed is so that you HAVE to download each scenario seperately] That IS the entire point (duh) and I would suggest you are the one beyond help, since the reasoning for this has been stated several times over." And now you write that downloading multiple scenarios in a pack is an "excellent suggestion." So in other words, you wrote that the Scenario Depot exists solely for the download of SINGLE scenarios, but now you support the download of MULTIPLE scenarios in a pack. Does this mean that the "ENTIRE POINT (duh)" of the Depot has changed? Or are you arguing that black is white and white is black? And, as I have already mentioned in this thread, "download stats" were not deemed relevant by you until now. You are trying (very badly) to cover your tracks. [ January 18, 2003, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: UberFunBunny ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hortlund Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: And basically, there is nothing any of you can do about it. Are you joking? It is the other way around actually. If someone would take all your scenarios and pack them together in a zip file and host it *wherever* you'd be sh1t outta luck trying to get that file off the server. Didnt you read anything I wrote about the legal aspects of this? Basically you would be reduced to emailing the owner of the server asking/threatening/begging for him to remove the file from the server. But it would be his call, totally up to him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.Sgt. Havilandt Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 It's awful "catty" in here anymore. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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