Russian uniform curiosity?

[dcrudeboy]

Been reading the past posts on the debate whether the Russian uniform mods are historically correct or not. I just finished watching the Finnish war movie "Talvisota: The Winter War" and noticed in several of the battle scenes, the Russians were wearing those "pointy" tall hats with the big red star on the fronts, the kind you see from pictures taken during the Russian Civl War. Kinda of suprised by seeing this - thought that was strictly a Russian Civil War thing. Any comments on the historical accuracy on this?

[MikeT]

Those are called a "shlem". They were declared unsatisfactory and were in the process of being replaced during time period of the Finnish war.

MikeT

[Foxbat]

Originally posted by MikeT:

Those are called a "shlem". They were declared unsatisfactory and were in the process of being replaced during time period of the Finnish war.

MikeT

Are you sure they were already being replaced? I know they were planning but IIRC the Ushanka wasn't in volume production until 1941 at the earliest.

ps. This would be a good place to compliment you on the officers (HQ) hats, they are frigging great I would never have imagined anyone would even think to mod them differently from the foot sloggers gray ones. Strike one for histotical accuracy! And they look great too (quite feat I reckon).

[White Phosphorus]

Shlem just means helmet. Those pointy hats were called Budjenovkas. Emphasis on je syllable.

[MikeT]

Per my WWII uniform book it says they were being replaced. I just checked the book and nothing else is said about a schedule.

Per the book "a basic uniform of a flat 'Japanese-style' peaked cap, a khaki shirt in tradtional cut but with stand-and-fall collar, which was worn outside the trousers. Breeches were eiter of a matching colour or dark blue. High boots were increasingly replaced by ankle boots (often of American manufacture) and puttees. This basic uniform was worn thoughout the year, but in winter all ranks wore a long grey greatcoat (shinel) and grey cloth pointed helmet (shlem)"

Under a drawing of a private, Red Army, 1939

"The private is wearing a cloth helmet (the budionovka or shlem) named after the Russian Civil War cavalry commander Budenny, which was found to be unsatisfactory and during the Winter War against Finland began to be replaced by the fur cap with earflaps...."

Now beyond that you are going to have the find the services of a grog...which I am not.

Oh, thanks about the fur caps. You would be amazed how long that took me. I am no modder and I struggled for several days before I even started to like the look, even now I wish someone would tackle the job and do a good one.

MikeT

[Leit]

http://www.cofe.ru:8000/arcive/photos/40.jpg

http://www.cofe.ru:8000/arcive/photos/50.jpg

Yes there was such uniform. It was maden for Russian Imperian army even before 1917 year but wasn't send to army so the first units use that hats was Red Army cavalery, well thats why that hat got the name 'Budenovka' in honor of Red Army cavalery general.

It was used for a long time. The photos shows russian solgers at Winter war.

To say a truth - uniform may be different as cloths on surounded people. That SS man use not standart but more convinient i feel:

http://www.cofe.ru:8000/arcive/photos/NCOKharkov43.jpg

look like a vagabond.

[ December 29, 2002, 07:37 AM: Message edited by: Leit ]

[Foxbat]

Originally posted by MikeT:

Per my WWII uniform book it says they were being replaced. I just checked the book and nothing else is said about a schedule.

I see, that could of course mean anything from "plans had been made to replace them" to "full-scale production had been started"

Oh well I guess it does answer my question in that the Ushanka was definitly being made before the Winter of 41.

Per the book [..]

This is the Webster book? Sounds interesting.

Under a drawing of a private, Red Army, 1939

"The private is wearing a cloth helmet (the budionovka or shlem) named after the Russian Civil War cavalry commander Budenny, which was found to be unsatisfactory and during the Winter War against Finland began to be replaced by the fur cap with earflaps...."

Hmmm.. sounds like they were possibly already issued during the Winter War, maybe one of our Finns has a pic of a sov soldier wearing one?

Now beyond that you are going to have the find the services of a grog...which I am not.

Soviet uniforms is still a rather obscure subject, so I guess if you have read the book you are a grog