Operation bagration - Assault at Orsha

[Der Alte Fritz]

Does anyone have units involved and details of this action by the 11th Guards Army vs 78th Sturm Division on the road to Minsk?

[Andreas]

There's an Osprey book on Bagration which has details including one of their nice 3-D maps. I think I have that at home and can have a look.

http://www.ospreypublishing.com/title_detail.php/title=P4784

All the best

Andreas

[Der Alte Fritz]

Hi Andreas

I have this book and in fact it is the reason for my question.

In the book it states that 5 Guards Rifle Corps took part in the assault with the southern three supported by special tank and pioneer units. But on the map they show at least 6 Rifle Corps in the front line.

The reason I am chasing this down is that I want to know the kind of formation used by the Rifle Corps in carrying out an assault like this.

There is a map at RKKA site that shows a formation to the south using two divisions forward and one in reserve and for each division, two regiments forward and the third in reserve. Fairly standard formation. But the Soviet Tactical Doctrine in WW2 shows similar 'assault' divisions with a column of regiments - no idea how the divisions were laid out.

Any ideas?

[Andreas]

Which day exactly?

All the best

Andreas

[JasonC]

DAF - actually the book says 5 divisions conducted the attack for 11th Guards, out of 6 along the front line. That is perfectly typical.

A guards combined arms army could have up to 12 rifle divisions as components, compared to 6 (to 10 sometimes, it is true) for a standard army. Half of them "up" for the initial attack on breakthrough sectors is typical, and that gives you the 6 divisions along the front. 5 of them attack and one (up north) just screening, and thereby acting as the reserve of the northern corps.

The main breakthrough effort is being made by the 3 southern RDs, each with tank and pioneer support. The other two are effectively conducting a holding attack, which is largely meant to deceive the defenders about the main axis a bit.

The book details the support of the breakthrough corps, sending tanks and pioneers first. That is clearly meant to deal with obstacles first of all. The rifle force would be behind that initial wave of armor and pioneers, and a 2 up 1 back formation, layered, would be perfectly typical. Yes sometimes RDs would get in column instead, but here the tanks are supposed to get them in and the rifle force proper it providing depth to the attack, meant to hold everything gained, mop up the holdouts etc.

That means behind each armored assault group you'd find 4 battalions in "up" positions. It is still plenty of force to space. Behind them as many again, as the second echelon of the front line RDs.

Here is how I would try to render to CM scale tactical fighting, the early part of that attack on the seriously supported section.

German defenders - initially, 1 company of infantry, 2 heavy weapons groups (each HMG platoon and a couple 81mm), 1x105mm FO, 1x75mm PAK, 1-2x75mm leIG, 1xNashorn SPAT.

Reinforcements 3xStuG, 1 infantry platoon, 1x150mm FO.

Russians - initial tank and pioneer force

3 T-34, 7 KV-1, veteran pioneer company with 3rd platoon and 6 foot FTs. Prep fire by 3x122mm howitzer FO (conscript quality to restrict them to prep fire).

Then a wave of 2 companies of guards infantry. Heavy weapons 6 each MMGs and 82mm slightly behind those.

Then another wave of the rifles, just like the previous. But coming on quite late in the scenario, turn-wise.

That gets pretty big on the Russian side - 5 companies of infantry total - and the odds are pretty steep. But the Germans have a chance of blunting the armor and keeping the pioneers out, if their StuG reinforcements are well handled. After that their MGs and heavy artillery have to hold off a boatload of Russian infantry and probably can't do it, but the "bill" for the Russians could get too high to win on points, if they lost the early armor fighting.

On the other hand if they win that part, they might romp through the weaker German infantry with minimal losses. Seems fair.

Historically speaking, some of the Russians might have IS-2s or heavy SUs or ISUs instead of KVs. You could give them that, but they will be heavily favored in play balance terms that way. (The Nashorn really won't get enough range to counter those, and the StuGs would be outgunned).

Your call if extra accuracy and challenge for the Germans is worth it in play balance terms...

[JasonC]

PS obviously the Germans would also get mines - that is the reason pioneers are going first, after all - and enough trenches for their guns and HMGs, several TRPs for their arty, etc.

[Der Alte Fritz]

Hi Jason

That is one interpretation of the text. Another is that 5 divisions attacked the 78th Sturm and the other attacked the northern German division the 256th. Comparing the map to the OOB shows that the northern most Rifle Corps (16th GRC) had all its divisions in line (north to south: 11th 1st and 31st)with the northern two conducting holding attacks (and the 1st slipping through the gap between 78th Sturm and 256th in marshes and the 31st holding the northern section of the 78th Sturm.) Next south is the 8th GRC with 26th GRD in the lead and the 5th GRD in 1st echelon and 8th GRD in 2nd echelon. Not a usual formation. Next south comes the 36th GRC with two divisions in front line 16th GRD and 84th GRD with the 18th GRD in 1st echelon - standard Russian attack formation.

I presume from all of this that the 8th GRC and 36th GRC were the assault force down the highway and adopted the three division wide formation rather than the standard four wide because they did not have the room. There is a town to the south of the highway and the woods/marshes to the north which were left to the 16th GRC.

Your force mix sounds about spot on for the 78th Sturm.

Thanks to everyone - this makes a lot more sense now.

cheers