The "How to Attack Like A German/Russian" Threads

[Shosties]

Here are two older, but very edifying, threads that got "left behind" in the CMBO topic area.

How to Attack Like a German - Sample Forces

Started by JasonC and meant for CMBO (and eventually encompasing Americans and through JonS to the Commonwealth), but of course the force structures and tactics can be transferred straightforwardly into CMBB for the Germans.

Then Andreas started this...

How to Attack like a Soviet Rifle Corps in 1944

This is a historical discussion based on the Iasi-Kischinjow Operation. It didn't evolve into a set of recommendations on purchasing units for larger attacks and MEs and how to use them for that "historically-informed" feel... well CMBB hadn't come out yet! Then that topic area got reserved for CMBO and that thread dropped down into the depths...

Anyway, here's the questions:

1) Given 2000, 3000, or 5000 points... what would be reasonable forces to put together as a Russian player given various conditions (division type, time period, etc.)?

2) How would they have employed those forces within the scope of a CMBB battle?

[ May 21, 2003, 06:28 AM: Message edited by: Shosties4th ]

[Andreas]

Go green. Then in 1942 2,000 points should buy you a somewhat depleted motorised battalion, which comes with an 81mm FOO. Fill in the rest with 2 platoons of T34, one of Valentines, some assorted guns (45mm, 76mm ZIS-3 and 76mm m1927, 25mm AA) and you are laughing all the way to the VL. The Valentine MG ammo is good enough to deal with a lot of infantry even if there is no HE for the 2-pdr gun. The T34s come with tons of cannister.

All the guns are good to kill anything the Germans field from the flank, and since you have a total of 10-15 tank killers on the battlefield, chances are there will be opportunities for flank shots.

[JasonC]

The Russians have two basic ways of attacking - the Mech way and the Infantry way. To do the former you really want a Mech division type and and armor force type. For the latter, a Infantry division type and combined arms force type works best. You can do them with combined arms Mech, or infantry force Infantry division, but those aren't as effective. (And the last better be facing no armor).

The Mech way is to take regular quality, and spend 1/2 to 2/3 of the point budget on armor. Very small amounts on arty (though air support, a cheap strafing type e.g., is fine if available for reasonable rarity). Modest amounts of infantry, often with SMGs, or mixed special types.

E.g. in mid 1943 6 T-70s, 12 T-34s, 2 SMG companies, 1 120mm FO. Or in a large point total fight, 18 T-34s, a motor rifle battalion, 2 on map 82mms, 3 120mm FOs. Or from that base, drop 1 120 FO and add a pioneer platoon. Or drop a 120 FO and 3 T-34s, add 5 T-70s and a pioneer company.

In 1943, the tanks can include 5 or 10 T-70s (or none if you take 18-21 T-34s), plus at least 9 T-34s. 1-2 platoons of SUs if you prefer those to T-70s.

How does the mech force type fight? A few overwatch groups can be formed around company HQs from rifle company HMGs, ATRs, single on map 82s, and FOs. They help deal with guns and HMGs in cases where the location makes it dangerous for tanks. Radio equipped T-70s scout behind a foot half squad "point". Pioneers in small groups clear AT mines the T-70s "discover".

The basic fighting approach, though, is small numbers of infantry scouting for numerous tanks, which shoot the heck out of anything run across. Then SMG infantry wades in and murders cowering survivors. The modest but reactive 120 FO support deals with blocks of woods too large for the tanks to see inside, when those can't just be bypassed. The main idea is to systematically kill the defenders along chosen approach routes with tank HE, with infantry taking a subordinate role (scouting, protecting from close assault, mopping up).

The other way of attacking, using an infantry division type and only combined arms levels of armor support, works best with "low" quality and relies on artillery prep fire and infantry depth.

Which arty to use depends heavily on the random rarity roll. But the basic idea is to take the cheapest large caliber (122mm and up) module available, as conscripts, and to max out the arty point budget with those. You can leave room for one reactive mortar FO, taken as greens - the 9x82mm that comes with a battalion, or 120mm - to have some reactive indirect fire support. Then the conscript heavies use a fire plan set up on turn 1, and the infantry advances conform to that plan.

At least 40% and typically more like 50% of the points should be spent on just infantry, with another 10-20% on support items, and arty more or less maxed out at 25%. As greens, this means even a 2000 point budget should include on the order of 500 men.

The basic idea is to reduce the defending infantry with the arty fire, not efficiently but on a large scale, and then to absorb the limited ammo of the surviving defenders with your own infantry depth, rally through that fire, and overwhelm the remaining defenders late in the fight.

Because the FOs are inflexible and the infantry is brittle and short ranged, however, you need other weapons to carry the fight in the early and middle stages. Ranged ones. 1-2 platoons of T-34s and a number of towed guns are the main answer there. Infantry overwatch groups are the other half, with light mortars, HMGs, etc.

E.g. I rolled one random rarity set that happened to give division 122s at +0 rarity, making them81 points apiece as conscripts. Flame T-34s happened to be 0 rarity too. I took 1 T-70 (a scout tank), 1 platoon of OT-34s, 6 conscript 122 FOs, 2 rifle companies, 1 SMG company, 1 pioneer company, and 2 76mm infantry guns.

The overwatch groups would be 2xHMG, 2x50mm mortar, 1x76mm towed IG. The 122s would fire 2-3 at a time at covered areas the infantry planned to take. The flame T34s and SMGs would act as the main assault group. Each company, plus the SMGs, would have 2 pioneer squads with an HQ attached.

Notice that the infantry way of fighting has the armor war conducted on a shoestring. It works best against an infantry type defender, or a combined arms one with an infantry division type - which limits the defense to at most a couple AFVs. The arty focus is meant to deplete an infantry and team based defense.

If you expect more armor for the defender, you may want to take a few AT capable towed guns - long 76s, or even 57mm ATGs if their rarity is livable (particularly in the Tiger era).

The tanks and the bulk of the infantry should be green, not conscript. The same goes for teams and any reactive mortar FOs. Only use "conscript" for the heavy FOs, the ones that plan to use map fire. It just makes that cheaper; the shells will still be fully effective.

You can try the infantry way using just infantry numbers in place of most of the heavy arty. If you have limited cover it won't work very well, though, because you won't have spots for all the men and just bunching up jacks up your own losses during the approach.

The tricky part tends to be anticipating the right objective lines to bombard when, and then getting the infantry to move instead of pin, to stay with the plan. Expect the first 5 minutes to be spent just creeping forward and dealing with initial LOS defenders, using your ranged weapons.

Minutes 5-15 tend to be the "approach fight", where the defenders do most of the shooting but you manage to get some infantry into cover close enough for full IDs. You want some planned arty falling then, on the foremost objectives.

Don't save your pre-planned arty for very late in the day, or the fight will be won or lost before it lands. You want spots where defenders will be, above all, but otherwise forward edge ones rather than back ones. Don't be afraid to use a wide sheaf with 2-3 FOs firing at the same location, to be sure some defenders will be under a thick enough the barrage.

After that period, the defense tends to soften. Early shooters have been IDed and silences, the arty has reduced the defense already, ammo constraints make it hard for the remaining defenders to keep up the volume of fire. Your infantry should rally and "lift" as the defense fire slackens, accumulating in cover areas clustered along the defender's original set up limit. Before the half hour mark you should have enough firepower up front and enough of an ammo advantage to outshoot the remaining defenders.

The first sort of attack will fail if you lose half of your tanks without smashing the defending AT network. The second sort of attack can fail if the arty misses completely or you push the infantry too hard too fast, breaking it beyond its ability to rally, against an intact defense.

You also need enough ranged heavy weapons stuff in the second type to keep your infantry from just getting pinned by HMGs and light guns too close to the start line for too long, "losing" the barrage. Then the defenders have time to recover from it before your own guys get close, remaining HMGs prevent your whole force getting forward, etc.

The solution to that problem is just having enough in the way of tanks, guns, on map mortars, etc to deal with enemy MGs and guns as they appear, within a few minutes for each. What makes it hard anyway is failure to get full IDs because you are still too far away. A single tank pushed forward can help, or a foremost infantry platoon on a covered route getting close enough for IDs.

That covers how to attack like a Russian. I hope it helps.

[Shosties]

Thanks, Jason, and yes it does help, as it always does.