SMG squads: how to assault with them?

[Amedeo]

After the recent, very interesting threads about the proper use of SMG units in defense (and the tactics to counter them) what about discussing the relative merits of the very same units used on the attack? After all the soviet SMG infantry was regarded mainly as an offensive tool. I'd be very interested in reading something on the proper use of this troops especially in conjuction with armour in their historical 'tankodesantniki' role.

Regards,

Amedeo

[JasonC]

The main way they work with tanks is a sort of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" dilemma they present to defenders. If small arms, MGs, etc open up at long range they can easily brush the riders off of the tanks. But then the T-34s know where they are, outside of infantry AT range. They stop and shell the living daylights out of everything, with their huge HE loads. If on the other than you hold fire until the tanks are close, to ambush with schrecks etc, or use a reverse slope to avoid all that tank HE, then the SMGers bail only when very close. You may get some of them but those left will eat you alive.

That's the theory. One problem with it is getting ID of MGs, if they go for the "long range" option. Another is (as always) PAK - your tanks still have to be able to shoot it out with those, successfully. When the first is the problem, you often have to send a tank closer to see things, ahead of the infantry - just not all of them. When the second is the problem, you often want infantry to go first scouting - which also gives you more eyes, close, when a smallish PAK opens up at long range.

I find in CM it is useful to suppliment an SMG and tank force with a few extras - a modest amount of pioneer infantry, and a reactive FO (late, 120mm. Earlier, sometimes 82mm with 6 or 9 tubes is better). A few light mortars can also help. This gives you - rifles with range, a kind of infantry to send first in open ground, ability to remove mines, and something to KO guns, smoke if you need it. Air support is also useful, just a strafing FB type like a La or Yak - it can sometimes ID (or KO) guns from the air before they even fire, or spot trenches on reverse slopes, etc.

The other problem in CM QB practice is cherry picking defenders who won't take an AFV unless it is invulnerable from the front. Charges at those aren't terribly fun, and certainly aren't the SMG and T-34 terror.

[Sirocco]

I haven't made much use of SMG squads when attacking, but I would imagine the use of terrain that masks movement and smoke are even more important when using them.

[JasonC]

You really can't avoid all situations where the LOS distance is always more than 70 yards on offense - except in a continuous forest I guess. SMGs don't have ammo to shoot farther than that. The point isn't to never be seen at a longer range, it is to have something else carry the fight instead of squad fire. That something is T-34s.

Their MGs do open ground and their HE does all bits of cover with exposed edges. The only places safe from a whole horde of T-34s are "back" deployments - reverse slopes, rear side of large buildings, interiors of large woods. The SMGs have those jobs.

The T-34s have to first drive everyone away from the "up" positions, then the SMGs "advance" to the edge of the cover involved. They shoot anyone they get LOS to from there. Then they make short bounds through the cover, 10m or so at a time, again on advance, until they have LOS out the other side.

On the approach you have to worry about MGs and such brushing the riders off - and typically you can't ride everyone, anyway. But once the fight is joined, at one range or another, the T-34s carry the main portion of the battle. The SMGs are point-wise a small portion of the force, most of which is tanks. You need an "armor" force type to really fight this way. But even a modest portion spent on SMGs will get you the power to clear the large cover areas.

E.g. rarity off mid-war examples. Vs. a 700 point defense thus 1050 on attack, take 6 T-34s, motorized SMG company, pioneer platoon, 2x50mm mortar, 82mm radio FO. That is the minimum to try it. The armor gets stronger at larger point totals.

E.g. vs. 1000 thus 1500 points, 9 T-34s, SMG company, pioneer platoon, 2x50mm, 120mm radio FO, Yak-9B (if clear weather).

If you had 1800 or this were a portion that big of a still larger force, 10 T-34s, 5 T-70s, same infantry and air as previous would not be unrealistic. Or instead of T-70s you could take 2 SU-152s or 4 SU-76s.

Extra hundreds can get you another SMG platoon (with a sniper or another 50mm), upgrade the pioneers to a company, make a platoon of the tank platoons flamers and give the pioneers some foot FTs as well (e.g. for city work), or add a large caliber, low quality FO for prep fire.

If you don't have an armor force type for the true tank rider version of the SMG attack, then you will not want them to be the dominant infantry type you take. But they can still make a very useful "shock troop" addition to a balanced force, led by an LMG and rifle infantry type.

A good portion in that case is 1/3 to 1/5 of your infantry platoons pure SMG, with the others preferably the types with 3 SMGs per squad (e.g. some 43 pattern, recon A. Early, the Rifle B brigade squads are a decent alternative).

Then put a rifle platoon on "point" and keep an SMG platoon with each company sized group. Hold them back during the scouting and fixing phase. When you've suppressed an area e.g. with a fire mission or what-not, send the SMG platoon into the aftermath instead of rifles. The rifles have the ammo to do the main firefight. The SMGs will clean up outnumbered or pinned survivors quickly.

That sort of force has to attack as infantry or combined arms typically do - by walking artillery ahead of the LMG-rifle led advance, or by destroying each IDed shooter at range with heavy weapons and tanks. The only difference is when you mop up after overwatch or arty barrage, it is SMGs that go first.

You can also use them on a wooded portion of a mixed terrain map, or to assault in a city. In the latter case, you need them across the street from the objective. And remember it is there firepower that takes things, not sending their bodies. Only a half squad needs to cross the street - the rest KO from across it. Don't expect them to take everything - they will run dry after they beat a force as large as themselves. But they will do that much, often without serious loss, which is useful.

[Frunze]

Originally posted by JasonC:

The main way they work with tanks is a sort of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" dilemma they present to defenders. If small arms, MGs, etc open up at long range they can easily brush the riders off of the tanks. But then the T-34s know where they are, outside of infantry AT range. They stop and shell the living daylights out of everything, with their huge HE loads. If on the other than you hold fire until the tanks are close, to ambush with schrecks etc, or use a reverse slope to avoid all that tank HE, then the SMGers bail only when very close. You may get some of them but those left will eat you alive.

Yeah, exactly. Against tanks you usually want a close-range defense - make 'em move to a range where your AT guns have a better chance. The SMG squads counter that.

With a less tank-heavy attack, it might be useful to have a SMG reserve to carry through the heaviest assault.

Also useful: cover arcs to keep 'em from using up their ammo too soon. I don't usually use cover arcs on offense, but with SMG squads you gotta have 'em.

[JasonC]

I use covered arcs all the time on offense. Even with LMG and rifle squads, I often want them to save their ammo for 100-150m, not blow it trying to suppress men in good cover at 250m. With SMGs my SOP is to give them 180 degree forward covered arcs with 70m range on the first turn.

I must say, however, that I've found it harder than I originally expected to get the T-34 and SMG based attack to work, without the suppliments I mentioned. Sound contacts are a big part of that. (I.e. MGs and light flak brush off the riders but the T-34s can't see them). Uber StuGs are an entirely different part of that.

My additions emphasize scouting, getting something forward to ID things, and counters to heavy weapons - guns and MGs - besides tank HE. Tank HE you'd think would be able to do it, but in practice they can't spot the little stuff and need cover themselves against the big stuff.

E.g. a rider platoon sends one 3xSMG half squad 100m ahead on foot, to see StuGs and bunkers as much as anything. The HQ rides with the 4xSMG. The whole platoon only advances after the little point half squad has seen there aren't visible heavy AT threats in each little dip in the terrain.

In open-ish ground, pioneers go first, using move to contact. The front is a wedge of squads, well spread, a second line has HQ, 2x50mm (FO usually stays back, in cover but with LOS). No arcs or 300m 180 front. They have tons of ammo and all rifles. Firepower is weak but range doesn't matter (until within 30m demo placement that is). The whole platoon firing together can stop anyone in the open.

(When you have T-70s you can add a pair of those to this group, to draw out guns. They can also press closer under MG fire or light Flak fire to ID those hard to spot types).

The nearest press forward, using "advance", to cover within ID range of the enemy set up zone, halting if pinned while another takes over. Tanks need not be exposed until I think the pioneers are within ~500m of likely enemy PAK positions, preferably more like 200m of likely enemy MG positions. Then the tanks and riders come forward. If any guns powerful enough to hurt the T-34s open fire, they pull back to defilade ASAP. Then the mortars get or at least suppress them, or they can be smoked by off map 82s inside of 3 minutes, or eliminated by off board 120s for the highest value targets (like 88s). You can duel them with the T-34s too, but only once something else has helped.

Air support easily spots AFVs, even those waiting behind hills. If the whole defense is hidden when they show up, they will typically still attack and usually go after a gun. If there isn't Flak, they will strafe for a long time, and a single cannon and MG pass can make a gun crew abandon.

Once attackers are close enough to see any portion of the defense that fires, it all works as advertised. Provided with targets, the T-34s can eat anything soft with HE in minutes. That drives everyone away from up positions - provided Tigers or Uber StuGs don't stomp out and smash you, that is.

A lone StuG you can tackle - like combined arms infantry division defenders - or infantry force type with just guns. But a German armor force type, or combined arms with mech division parent, it won't work in the uber-StuG era. 2 Tiger or Panthers will ruin such an attack without breaking a sweat. 3 StuGs have the edge, and a large one, even against 9 T-34s.

[ October 27, 2003, 03:59 PM: Message edited by: JasonC ]

[walpurgis nacht]

Tankodesantniki is best used for general transport under “protected” conditions.

-example: You can keep an assault troop platoon mounted on tanks, hidden somewhere in your setup zone. Once you have completed your general recon, you can rush the assault troops where you need them to attack. This allows for more flexibility in your overall plan of attack, and keeps your assault troops *absolutely* fresh, away from enemy fire, until you are ready for it.

-example: Once you eliminate the enemy in a particular zone, you can mount your slower over-watch units like MGs, 50mm mortars, HQs, and radio spotters to help speed up their relocation process. Rush them to the next over-watch zone.

Keep in mind that most German armor is slow with high PSI. This often makes tankodesantniki style actions more risky than they already are. “Fast” move will bog your tanks, and many of your transportable units will be able to move just about as quickly as the armor over shorter distances anyway.

**scouting**

If you are seriously pressed for time, and resource permits. Use a fast, light tank (like the pzII series) that will transport a split squad (team) and do some lightning style scouting.

Based on the map and your goals, choose the terrain you wish to rush the scout to. Mount your split squad on the tank and place it somewhere out of sight in your setup zone. Try and find a position in your setup zone that will leave you with the fewest movement orders necessary to get your tank to his eventual endpoint. One clean, “fast” move is ideal. You don’t want to turn in open ground unless it is absolutely necessary. Turning will slow your tank down, and make him more vulnerable to any enemy AT gun cover arcs that you may trip along the way.

Make sure your tank’s endpoint is somewhere immediately behind the forward cover you choose to rush the split squad to (meaning literally as close as you can get to it). This will make your tank “immune” to any enemy AT assets 180 degrees in front of it when he arrives (unless of course the enemy has an AT gun or TH a few meters in front of your endpoint, or you passed a gun and it’s turning around).

Give your split squad an “assault” order into the very edge of the terrain directly in front of your light tank’s endpoint. The reason is that once your tank reaches the forward cover patch, the split squad will only have to assault forward a meter or 2 and be “safe” in cover. Give him the movement order while he’s mounted, and once your tank already has movement orders. This is so your split squad will not “assault” forward until your tank has reached his endpoint, but will do so the instant he does.

This is a dangerous business, and there is a good chance your scout will get knocked off the tank while moving if he receives any significant enemy MG/small arms fire. I only do this if I need to rush an attack, or if I’m rushing forward positions in an ME.

If you are using a tank that buttons up to fire when it spots something (like the t34/76), you might restrict him with a cover arc that deals only with the terrain directly in front of his final endpoint. This way your tank is not as likely to button up from a target he finds along the way, and he can react more quickly to any threat your split squad uncovers.

**barbed wire**

A great way to deal with enemy wire is to move troops over it “tankodesantniki”. In what would otherwise be several turns trying to advance over the dangerous wire, you can mount your troops and have them over it in seconds. You can increase the chance of safe passage if this is done in concert with a smoke screen.

**blitzkrieg tactics using tankodesantniki**

Again, the following are seriously high-risk tactics and I almost never use them unless I feel the conditions are ideal or my time frame makes it a necessary risk. However dangerous, if it succeeds the damage you can inflict on the enemy might end an opponent’s ability to defend effectively in just a few turns of action.

Ironically, During WWII the Russians produced armor much better suited for blitzkrieg than German armor. The attempt has been to model this in CMBB. When you combine the low PSI, high speed, decent horsepower, large HE load, decent AP penetration power, heavily sloped armor, 2 MGs, tungsten (starting sept ’43), canister, and squad + team transport capacity of the t34/76, you get the best tank in this game for tankodesantniki blitzkrieg style assaults.

I can best describe this process through a specific, ideal set of circumstances. Let’s say you are attacking as Russians and you want to “blitkrieg” a defender’s flag that is in the middle of a 60 x 60m patch of woods, guarded by a platoon of German infantry. You have a platoon of t34/76s (3 tanks), a platoon of SMG squads (3 squads + HQ), and 2 Tank Hunters in reserve to do this.

On the first 2 t34s, place one squad + a tank hunter, on the third place the platoon HQ + the stronger split half of your remaining SMG squad. Be sure to assemble this formation somewhere out of sight, preferably in your setup zone at the beginning.

Try to choose your eventual blitzkrieg lane to the flag during setup. You want a lane you can start from in a covered position, yet will get you to the front-most meters of the woods patch with the flag in one movement. It should be wide enough for 3 t34s to “fast” move through side by side (You will NOT want to “fast” move your tanks directly following one another because if your front t34 gets nailed by something, his forward motion will be halted and that will block the following t34s temporarily, trapping them in the LOS of whatever just killed the first one).

Another important reason to find a lane (or a few) during setup is so you can manipulate your scouting/probing process to best have heavy weapons teams (HMGs, mortars, etc) and other slower moving over-watch in place, ready to support your “blitzkrieg” movement when the time comes. You will likely have to do some attacking to get your over-watch into the best positions.

When over-watch is in position, move your “blitzkrieg” grouping up to the starting point of the chosen lane. You should remain out of enemy LOS as you move them up (if he sees what you’re doing ahead of time your might as well abort the plan). Once your tanks get to the starting line make sure they are in a formation that is correctly spaced for them to maneuver through the “blitzkrieg” lane at the same time, side by side (10 meters is good). Rotate them to face the direction you will eventually move using hotkey “o”.

You want to take out as much enemy support fire for the woods position as you can ahead of time. So probe as aggressively as possible towards the woods patch with the flag. Take out what you can with your over-watch grouping. Otherwise target the patch with arty, or pump on-board mortar and HMG fire into the area. If you have a spare FO, target a smoke screen to cover the most vulnerable point of your “lane”. Timing your arty well is important. If you use smoke, don’t let it start raining down until you are absolutely ready to rush. The smoke will inform him “something’s up”, and he may have time to adjust cover arcs in anticipation.

As I described in the scouting example, you want to give your mounted SMG squads and THs “assault” movement orders for that 1-2 meters forward to reach the very edge of the woods patch. In this case, since you have that overwhelming SMG 40 meter punch, you can add “move to contact” forward, after they have assaulted their way into the cover. If you were lucky enough to get your squads into the trees without taking fire, you should be able to rout whatever is there with relative ease.

Timing is everything in CMBB, and this particular tactic is no exception. For example, give your T34s their movement orders the turn BEFORE you want to rush, and use the “pause” function to get them close to a 61-62 second time of departure as you can. This way you can “even out” command delay variations between the tanks (if they have different experience levels, or are without radios), and you can be sure they will start the rush a few seconds into the turn you selected, helping minimize the defender’s ability to react. Also, carefully time FO HE bombardments so that ideally, your troops will be assaulting into the woods patch just a few seconds after the arty stops.

As dangerous as such a thing is, these tactics often work better than you might think. If you pull it off as a surprise, you might well avoid most of the defender’s supporting cover arcs, because you simply moved through them too quickly for him to turn and nail you. Also, if the defender has infantry with short forward cover arcs in the woods patch, the speed at which you arrive, and the few meters you have to “assault” your squads into the woods often happen so fast, that he doesn’t even get a burst off until you’re in the woods with him.

[ October 27, 2003, 05:01 PM: Message edited by: Walpurgis Night ]

[Amedeo]

Thank you all for your insightful comments. In fact I think that one of the fact that makes so difficult to use the T-34/SMGs combo in assaults is (other than the cherry-picking and 'balanced' points, peculiar to QBs) that factors that are currently not well modelled in CM (e.g. cover from tanks, embarking/disembarking and fire while mounted) are of great importance in those kind of assaults.

Regards,

Amedeo