Averting Stalingrad

[Xavier_1986]

I've been rereading Gottlob Bidermann's In Deadly Combat memoir. I'm sure many, if not most, of you have read it. After Sevastopol, the Crimean divisions are driven to the opposite end of Russia and deployed on the Leningrad front. Bidermann makes it very plain he thinks this was beyond folly, and he goes so far as to suggest that -maybe- if the Crimean divisions had remained where they were, "anchoring the southern flank" the Sixth Army might not have been encircled and wiped out at Stalingrad.

Now, I'm fairly skeptical of that assumption just because I know how mind blowingly powerful the Soviet counteroffensives at Stalingrad were and the psychological shock that Uranus and Little Saturn inflicted on Army Group south. But I'm no expert and since I know many of you are, I've decided to approach you all with this little tidbit because it does interest me.

Now nothing is certain right? Bidermann doesn't say the Crimean divisions -would have- saved Stalingrad, I think he merely suggests that they could have been used to blunt the Soviet offensive and allowed the 6th Army to escape, or hold, or whatever. I'm just wondering how likely or how valid of an assumption you all think that is?

[Andreas]

They might have. But in that case German 18th Army at Leningrad would most likely have been destroyed, and 16th Army would have been in great danger.

The divisions of 11th Army arrived just in the nick of time to help defend against a very ambitious Red Army offensive.

Bidermann is wrong on this one.

All the best

Andreas

[JasonC]

The Germans needed an entire panzer army to stop Uranus. In reserve, uncommitted, fully equipped. A full panzer corps (in addition to what they actually had, which was one obsolete German PD and one Rumanian PD) would have helped if they intended to run, holding one of the jaws open for a bit, perhaps. But they didn't - they never would have authorized a retreat from Stalingrad just because of a little counterattack, and by the time they knew it was a lot more than that it would have been way too late. Nor was there any prospect of German reserves lounging around behind the front, without being sent into the city to try to win the fight there faster. Which just would have used them up, too. Maybe the Russians are ready a half a month later or something, but the logic of the situation is the same. Russians bleed them in the city with infantry until German reserves are spent, and then hit the flanks with overwhelming armored force. There is no way a German army systematically underestimating the Russians and making the pigheaded mistakes they made in the fall fighting, would be ready for that process.

[Xipe66]

I find it funny how "German could have won the war, or averted this or that if only", just a few topics down from this one I found;

Sattelite divisions were usually supplied with old equipment, if the Germans supplied them at all. If they were better supplied, Operation Uranus (the encirclement of the 6th army at Stalingrad) would not have happened. After the withdrawal from the Caucasus, the sattelite units (Hungarians, Romanians, and Italians) were mostly left to fend for themselves; no longer recieving support from the Germans.

[Corvidae]

The only way the germans could have averted the disaster knowen as Stalingrad, Is to have never entered the city in the first place,..

The rest is idle speculation, and hypothetical "whatif" material,

The germans were beat the moment they invaded poland in 39, it was just a matter of time.,

The only hope the germans had was in july of 44,

When an attempt was made to kill the chancelor,

Had Staufenberg gone back in and checked and finished off Hitler, But he didnt,

Of course we can play "whatif" with this as well,

(actualy I kinda feel like playing )