My thoughts on Industrial tech

[Carl G. E. von Mannerheim]

For the Russians is represents more manpower as opposed to better industry.

For the US its a reflection of superiour industry.

So if its called Industrial tech. Why are the russians getting an advantage over the Superior American Industrial base?

CvM

[MrWinterbottom]

Originally posted by Carl Von Mannerheim:

[QB]For the Russians is represents more manpower as opposed to better industry.

For the US its a reflection of superiour industry.

...snip...

/QB]

I'm wondering.. where do you get that information? Is it listed in the manual I never bothered to read? Or is it your own preconceived notions coming into play here?

Just curious.

[Carl G. E. von Mannerheim]

It is not necessarily a preconceived notion. It is an obvious fact. The russian industry was no where near as good as the American industry.

Now i know that some of you will wave figures of Russian tank production and so on. But their economic base was no where near as good as the Us.

That is why that the industrail tech should be only for mechanized units (Tank, plane, ships) while the price of infantry units should be pre set. Since its impossible to develope better manpower.

CvM

[JayJay_H]

Originally posted by Carl Von Mannerheim:

That is why that the industrail tech should be only for mechanized units (Tank, plane, ships) while the price of infantry units should be pre set. Since its impossible to develope better manpower.

CvM

Can't see anything wrong with that. But infantry shouldnt be excluded of gaining any improvements at all. Okay, its impossible to develope better manpower. But you can equip your soldiers with the latest stuff from the weapon facilities. (Or from the X-Labs), and there comes mass production into play and the economies of scale

[ November 24, 2002, 07:03 PM: Message edited by: JayJay_H ]

[JerseyJohn]

I think it might be an abstraction to represent net totals available. A lot of American production was tied up in building things like Liberty Ships and convoy escorts to maintain the supply lines.

A lot of it was also tied up in manugacturing basic war materials like ammunition and other basics which the U. S. then had to ship all around the world. What remains is the actual amount that can be converted into fighting units -- also, the U. S. starts off with units that didn't really exist when America entered the war.

Then there was the Pacific War involving a whole new set of armies, air wings and much larger naval and transport/convoy resources.

None of which is offered as the answer, just my opinion.

[ November 25, 2002, 08:11 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

[murks]

Industrial tech determines the efficiency of the production of war materials. In 1939 the US was producing very little war materials while the USSR was already making as many tanks as the rest of Europe together. Also, when a large part of it's industrial and resource base had fallen into the enemies hands, the USSR still outproduced germany. They were very efficient at producing what they did produce and they material was good if simple (as you all know). It took the US two years to shift to war production. Depending on when they enter, they should also start with a rather high value for industrial tech, I agree.

[ev]

Originally posted by Carl Von Mannerheim:

So if its called Industrial tech. Why are the russians getting an advantage over the Superior American Industrial base?

CvM

Perhaps Industrial Tech is not the most appropriate name...

I imagine U.S. Industry was much more advanced than Soviet Industry. Most Soviet Tanks did not have radios because the Soviets, which built so many tanks, could not make enough radios for those tanks.

Having said that, probably the Soviets went a lot further at putting all their industrial capability behind the war effort. A late as 1944 Americans could still buy in their stores such ammenities as cigarettes and stockings. British people had a much harder time getting those items, and, my humble guess is that from cooking pans, to dresses, all consmer goods most have been extremely scarce in during the war in Russia.

I have no idea what Hubert and Co. were thinking when they devised the I.T. research cathegory. Personally, I think about it as how much of an effort you put to mobilize your industry for war.

[GDS_STARFURY]

I dont think that the US industry was any more advanced then the USSR at the outbreak of WW2. In fact in fields such as metalurgy Russia has been more advanced then the rest of the world for decades. The Soviets also made a very important choice early in the war. They decided to not focus on the next best thing, but to make as many of what was proven to work already. The best way to translate this in game is to redefine each countries starting research to more accuratly match history.

[Wachtmeister]

It seems to me that "Industrial Technology" is really more like "Rate of Weapon Production" [not necessarily efficient or technically advanced production], resulting from mobilization of a given country's ecomomy for maximum military related output. In large part, WWII was a " war of industrial capacity". The Axis only real hope was to achieve a quick victory before the Allied industrial advantage could take effect.

In game terms, the USA starts out with low IT, which is valid, especially in the period from 1939 through 1941, when America was, as Admiral Yamamoto noted, a "Sleeping Giant". The main factor supressing US production, long term, is the low MPP base of only 180 vs. something like 480 for the USSR. This is, however, somewhat offset by the large inital US Army that did not exist historically.

Even allowing for all the production needed for fighting Japan in the Pacific, the resource base difference between the USA and USSR seems too high.

Historically, in terms of sheer industrial and technological power the USA was unmatched in WWII and remains so today. She produced all the military hardware for her own needs, including all requirements for the Pacific Theater, and much of that needed by the other Allies.

[Martinov]

Yes the above posts put the finger on it. Industrial tech most likely represents efficiency, and the soviets were very efficient with their scarce industrial resources compared to Germany and the USA. I have seen this expressed in terms of tanks produced/per ton of steel/per unit of electricity. The soviets did very well in these indexes, however the USA had so much greater industrial resources overall they did not need to reach that efficiency. Where it falls down is the USA's LOW income in the game.

If anything the following might represent things more accurately, USA 500 with ind tech 0 and USSR with 250 and ind tech 5.

[Norse]

Originally posted by JayJay_H:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Carl Von Mannerheim:

Since its impossible to develope better manpower.

CvM

Okay, its impossible to develope better manpower.</font>

[JayJay_H]

Norse, read the rest of my post. Also you have to excuse my bad english and vocabulary from time to time, for im no native speaker ok

[JayJay_H]

And some of you guys might remember: In return to castle wolfenstein there is indeed better manpower developed: with fusing together bioengineering and robot-technics; and its not to easy to take these 'Super-Soldaten' to pieces

[JerseyJohn]

Then there's The Further Adventures of Buckaroo Bonzai which dares to expose the true intention of Mussolini's crazed researchers delving into the -- but as you know JayJay, to reveal more would be too dangerous. :eek:

[JayJay_H]

Originally posted by JerseyJohn:

Then there's The Further Adventures of Buckaroo Bonzai which dares to expose the true intention of Mussolini's crazed researchers delving into the -- but as you know JayJay, to reveal more would be too dangerous. :eek:

Hey! Thats something what arrests my attention Jersey!Besides, Nobody would be able to imagine what would have happened when 'Operation Resurrection' from Himmlers SS-Paranormal-Division would have succeeded

German Knights from the Middle Ages, disturbed in their sleep from allied air bombardements near Paderborn, Summer 1943

Prototype of the Uebersoldat - X-Labs, Trondheim, occupied Norway, 1942