Disbanding the French Navy

[Panzer39]

The new topic got me thinking on how much I hate the fact that France can receive any MPP value for disbanding its fleet. Just as large warships took years to build, they also took a lot of time to scrap. Once scraped, the material would have to be processed before it would be able to be used again, this again would take more time. As we all know, time is one thing that France has in short supply. I do not think that scrapping ships should be done away with, but I do feel that their should be a penalty.

My solution.

1. Ships scrapped by France still generate the same amount of MPP that they normally receive.

2. However, these ships have a 25-35% chance of being reborn as Axis ships at half strength when France falls.

3. This would represent the chance of capture they would suffer from being in dry dock, being taken apart, when the Germans roll through.

4. However, if France holds out for a certain amount of time, the percentage drops off to near nothing.

Solution 2.

1. Any ships scrapped would not generate immediate MPP's

2. Instead they would generate 5 MPP's (raise the MPP value of the port where they are scrapped)until they pay off.

3. Once again, if the port where a ship is in the process of disbanding is captured, the ship has an X amount chance of falling over to the other side at half strength.

Thoughts?

[Edwin P.]

I think the question is whether disbanding the ships represent;

A> Prewar allocation of resources away from ships

In which case the disbanding of ships is a simplified way to represent this.

B> In War diversion of resources (supplies, personnel, cash) from the Navy to the Army. In which case the chance for the Germans to capture the keels of ships would encourage the French to disband ships in UK controlled ports, if that is possible and if they don't the Germans have the chance for a much stronger navy.

As for which of your solutions I prefer, its definitly #1, as it gives the Allies an immediate MPP boost which they desperately need to hold the line against the German offensive. Your percentage of 25% insures that the Germans would gain the hulk of 1 ship on average, a fair and not unbalancing exchange for the remains of 3 to 4 French Naval vessels. A most interesting variable.

[ June 21, 2003, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[JerseyJohn]

To me none of this makes much sense. A nation takes three years building a battleship, puts a fortune into it, committs a lot of effort and expense into training it's crew, and when the war starts the big strategy is to pull these things into port to convert them into land units, redeeming only a small fraction of what was put into them.

Cashier specialized and expensive units, like Battleships and bombers, to salvage a little something for infantry corps. A task the country could have raised much more cheaply and quickly if that had been it's intention in the first place!

This makes sense to players stretching everything to win the 1939 Fall Weiss scenario as a game, but it's really just a distortion of the disband function.

[John DiFool]

Originally posted by JerseyJohn:

To me none of this makes much sense. A nation takes three years building a battleship, puts a fortune into it, committs a lot of effort and expense into training it's crew, and when the war starts the big strategy is to pull these things into port to convert them into land units, redeeming only a small fraction of what was put into them.

Agreed on all points JJ; I would just add a what-

if: if the game started in 1936, players would be

given the choice to choose a completely different

force mix.

Actually I'd say a '36 start date makes good

sense for other reasons: for one, a lot of the

most important decisions were made before

September 1939. If Hubert did it kinda/sorta

like Days of Decision did (which had constraints

on what you could do and build, so it wasn't a

complete free-for-all), without breaking any

copyright laws, then I'd be happy.

For SC1, I'd like to see a mod which scrapped

about 25% of starting unit MPPs (on a one-for-one

basis); I think most people would instantly put

all such freed-up points into air units/tech, tho.

John DiFool

[JerseyJohn]

John,

A 1936 starting date would be great except we'd need some sort of non-war mode which the game doesn't currently contain in any manner.

It might be easier to just use the campaign editor, start with the basic 1939 Fall Weiss Scenario, and delete some units, replacing them with others at an overall equal MPP exchange, say x-number of BBs for y-number of airfleets/army units.

In actuality the French needed a good sized fleet to maintain contact with the colonial empire, which is barely represented in the game except for Algeria/Tunisia and Syria.

We're getting back now into the Diplomacy issue that we explored pretty well around January. I think Kurt88 started the Thread and Hubert cut in to say he found the idea interesting.

[Panzer39]

The problem with a 1936 start date is that the game would be awfully boring. In Hearts of Iron, it is a lot of fun because you research techs along a tech tree that need a certain time to complete and you can influence other countries diplomatically. Neither of these options exist in SC. What we could do is create a "set up" turn prior to the start of a 1939 Scenario where the players get to purchase whatever they want with a set amount of MPPS and place them on the map. Or maybe have 3 year long turns leading up to 1939 so that the player could make research gains (higher percent chance of getting one) and move units around inside national boundaries.