A Few Ideas For The Game

[Pochenko]

First of all I want to say HELLO and I also want to thank you for this great forum. You will note that my english it's poor but that's because I'm from Uruguay and we speak spanish here. I have somethings to point out of the game, it' a good strategic game but it has several problems with World War history.

1- Where are the artillery teams? I think they should be in the game since they played an important role in the War. For example it would had been imposible for the german's to conquer sebastopol without them.

2- Where are the paratroops teams? One of the most important advantages of the Wermacht was the Fj teams. It's ridiculous to conquer Norway using sea transport.

3- Somethin' that was a "bug" in the first version of the game was the infantry defense of the tanks group, this skill increased when you reasearch "heavy tanks" and this was "fixed" but I think it was a "bug" to "fix" this "bug" because I don't believe that infantry could take over a Mark 3h o a Pz-38 like to a Tiger or a Panther.

4- The research skill for infantry should be "infantry weapons" not only "AT-weapons" because really they don't only developed bazookas, panzerfausts or ptrd rifles, they also developed the MG-42 (the best heavy machine-gun world has ever seen) the Gew-43, the FG-42, MP-43 (I'm not going to list everyone but they were a lot) and so, infantry should get an increased skill on infantry attack and defense.

5- I think that russians may not have Hq teams until you are nearly Moscow or until they are heavily hurted. I had played the game as Allied and I had noticed that if you "buy" Zhukov's Hq (or someone else) you can stand the german's charge quite easy. And talking about history again, Stalin left his troops on their own telling them to avoid provoking the german's during the first weeks of the german's advance.

6- Why it's imposible to transport my rockets teams over sea? They are useless unless you have developed level 3 or more. And it's ridiculous that the germans and soviets have the same level. Come on, russians knowed rockets as I know english (I mean nothing at all). I think germans should start with level 2 not 1.

7- The interest in war of soviets it stupid. They were not prepared for nothing before 1944, Stalin was making changes in red army's structures (he eliminated a lot of officials including generals and commanders) and even if you set the initial join value to 0, it starts to go up very quikly after june 1941.

8- If you look to a map you will note that Norway and Finland have a border above Sweden, why aren't they conected?

9- Does Zurich really exists? Come on, I know that Swiss was not an industrial country or something like that but unless they sould have a city.

10- There's a big problem with research and development. Supouse that I have an infantry team on north Afrika (very streched for me) and I research AT weapons, why this team upgrades? I think equipment it cannot be transported magically. The teams should upgrade once they refit in a city with a value of 8 or more.

11- Russians partisans should appear even if the USSR had surrended, otherway if you play like Axis and you conquer the USSR, the game is winned (unless if you are not stupid).

12- I like to go to the beach on summer and I like to fight soviets in winter. WHERE IS THE COLD??? I think germans supply and readiness should decrease quite a lot in winter months when you are in russia except for troops that are ocupping cities. One of the reasons for german's deafeats in Moscow and Stalingrad was the sub-zero weather.

13- ¿What about the Graff Spee and the Bismarck? I think they should appear in the game, of course I'm not saying that Uruguay has to appear (the Graff Spee was sunked here) but unless the Bismarck on the Baltic Sea.

14- This is a question becuase I really not know this, what happened with vichy france once the allied liberated France? Didn't they joined inmediately? I ask you because I'm sure you know. I think I have forgot somethin to point out but I don't realise what so I'm going to end this. Thanks again for the forum and please tell me if someone speaks spanish.

[Panzer39]

You make some good points, most of the additions you want have been asked for many times before. I like your last one about Vichy. I think they should join the allies if neutral and France is liberated. I would also have liked the option of not creating Vichy at all! Hopefully this will happen in SC2

[Les the Sarge 9-1]

In some cases it's the scale of the unit.

A paratroop unit for instance can't be depicted at this scale, it was an operational level formation, and would just get absorbed into an army sized formation.

Same with artillery, at the army unit scale, it's just a detail buried several layers down.

Even the course szed unit it to far up the chain.

Paratroops operated as a couple of divisions at best. Way to small in size for SC to handle.

In a game like Advanced Third Reich for instance, the US airborne's entire assets were dumped into a single counter. It was barely worth using it.

Some of your other thoughts though, might appear in the next evolution of the design.

This was Hubert's first game eh, but not bad for a first try

[Les the Sarge 9-1]

Oh, and your english is fine (and I speak what I am told is university grade level english).

So don't worry about your posts

[kurt88]

I'm from Uruguay

Amazing, I always wanted to go there!

Tell us something more, I hear they got some great steaks over there.

Uruguay is also my favorite during the Worldchampionship soccer, I love those heavenly blue shirts

Remember Franscecoli? Recoba?

[Comrade Trapp]

(and I speak what I am told is university grade level english)

You HAD to add that little detail in there, didn't you. You think that becuase you can speak "university grade level english" and I can only speak lousy "public high school level english" makes you better then me?

[Les the Sarge 9-1]

Depends how ya looks at it CT heheh.

Either I am very intelligent and possessing a most splendiferous literary capacity.

Or the quality of a university education has really lost a lot of its merit heheh.

[Friendly Fire]

Pochenko, welcome amigo!

Regarding artillery, as mentioned previously in the forum, consider rockets L3 and below as massed artillery. Groups of these units are quite effective (as Curry is busy demonstrating in our game, argh.)

I disagree that with a high rank HQ you can stand the german charge easily. Against the AI maybe!

Units need supply 6 to upgrade, not too far off your suggestion of minimum supply level 8.

Agree about the winter. I think a good house rule it so not allow major offensives in the USSR during winter. Makes it a lot harder on Axis!

FriendlyFire

[Shaka of Carthage]

Pochenko

Alot of the points you brought up have been discussed many times here. So I'll try to give answers reflecting those various opinions.

1) Where are the artillery teams? ...

Numerous requests for the same thing. But as was pointed out, the scale of SC is not appropriate for any "unit" that is pure artillery.

2) Where are the paratroop teams? ...

Same response as above. Wrong scale. Though it was somewhat agreed upon, that since the Paratroopers were something of a "glamour" unit, including the ability for some nations to have one (1) unit of them would perhaps help in marketing the game. Same concept with a "Marine" unit.

3) Infantry defense of a Tank Group ...

This one is confusing, since I'm not clear on what you are saying. Currently, the problem is that Anti-Tank research will increase Army/Corp ability to defend against Tank Groups, while Heavy Tank research (or any other tech) will not increase Tank Groups ability to attack infantry. So once the enemy researches Anti-Tank defense, your Tank Groups are worthless attacking the enemy infantry.

4)Research should be "infantry weapons", not only "anti-tank" weapons ...

Here we have the same problem that artillery, paratroopers and Marines have, scale. Division sized units have organic artillery, as well as Corp artillery that could be attached. Since our units are Corp and Army sized, our artillery is all organic to those units. At this level, the combat power of those Corp and Army units is mainly coming from the artillery and armor organic or attached to them (ie US division having a tank battalion attached to it, German Corp having a "heavy" tank battalion attached to it). The combat power represented by infantry weapons is very small. Small enough that its not important enough to have an effect on the SC combat rating system (ie soft factors).

5) ... Russian HQ's not until Moscow or Russians really hurting ...

I agree, but for a slightly different reason than you. Russian HQ's represent the ability for Russia to conduct offensive actions. While this is something the Russians didn't have in real life until '42 or '43, how do you reflect that in a game? Its the same problem with the Allied invasion of Western Europe. Its hard for a player to sit there for turn after turn and be on the defensive. What most "game players" want is a equal fight, or at least the ability to strike back. Thats why the "bid" system is used in competitive games, and the reason given to "balance" the game.

6) Why is it impossible to transport rockets overseas?

Rockets are a poorly designed strategical weapon in SC, and most people end up using them as overgrown artillery, if they use them at all. As a strategical weapon, there is no reason to transport them overseas. The problem you have with research levels is an easy fix, just modify the tech levels in whatever campaign you play.

7) Russian readiness is stupid

This is a debate that has generated topic after topic over the last year or more. Its generally been agreed on, that the design of SC has the Russian readiness increase the way it does, to put pressure on Germany to get prepared to fight Russia. Otherwise, almost everyone agrees, that without other changes, its very easy for Germany to take all the neutrals, do an invasion of England, then face Russia and a isolated US. Game over, Axis win.

8) why aren't Norway and Finland connected?

Same reason US and Canada aren't connected. Same reason North Africa is so narrow. Same reason North Atlantic is a small fraction of its actual size. Mr H ran out of map hexes. He had a limit on the number he could use, so he had to make some design choices.

9) Does Zurich really exists?

Adding Zurich would just give the Germans another neutral and added MPPs. The fact that you only get plunder is the only reason Switz survives currently, since you only invade it when you are done with all the other neutrals.

10) automatic tech upgrades ...

Another item that has generated quite a few topics. Almost everyone agrees that its something that should be done. It wasn't done, for the same reason there are generic units. To keep things simple.

11) Russian partisans even if Russia surrenders ...

If Russia falls, the game is over. With the additional MPPs from a occupied Russia, there are more than enough MPPs to purchase units to place on the Partisan generating hexes. Or even let the Partisans generate, and have killing them off a training exercise for your units to gain experience.

12) ... weather ...

Another item that has been discussed in quite a few topics. The "movement" effects of weather are represented, but using a method very few of us appreciate. The "combat" effects are missing. But thats about all of us can generally agree on, since you now have a wide difference of opinion on what those weather effected "combat" effects should be.

13) ... Graf Spee and Bismark ...

Another topic discussed quite frequenlty. They are missing for the same reason quite a few of the Western Allies naval units are missing. You don't have a true representation of the North Atlantic, so you don't need a true naval OOB. In effect, we have a abstract representation of the naval battle in the atlantic, using hexes. As an abstract, only a few units are needed.

14)... Vichy France ...

This topic actually generated hard feelings among various people, since it brought up alot of emotions regarding the role of Vichy France, and the French in general, during WWII. The creation of Vichy France, SC did fine. The collapse, based on an invasion, SC missed a few minor, but critical points. While I haven't answered your question, I've rambled on enough in this post as it is. If someone else doesn't answer it in a day or so, I make a new post describing what happend to Vichy.

There are a few people here who speak Spanish, so you may or may not get some e-mail responses. But your English is far superior to the Spanish of the majority, so feel free to continue posting in English.

[JerseyJohn]

Pochenko

First, like so many people who use English as a secondary language, yours is much better than you give it credit for, so don't worry about being understood here.

Second, a lot of the issues you mention, as stated earlier by Shaka and the others, have already been discussed numerous times here in depth. It would be good to use the search engine, type in the key word, make sure it's set for Strategic Command and no doubt you'll find a wealth of topice on every point you've mentioned.

Collectively we've written dozens of books in the Forum and it's neither possible nor desirable to keep rewriting them. Of course, these are views which primarily involve the personal opinions of the members, so much of it has to be taken as opinion even if presented as fact. In any case, it's nearly always very good opinions with much more to be gained from the reading than a random selection of books by historians, which all too often are also mainly based on either opinions or distortions of facts.

Third, don't take any of this too seriously. The game is an abstraction and the opinions stated by the members are very freewheeling, so relax and flow with it.

Fourth, I normally don't add anything to these question threads because I know others will make good and reliable posts and are invariably supportive with new members. But I wanted to say your questions are very good ones and, as I've said, you'll find more than enough material on them in relation to the game by utilizing the search engine.

If not, post a thread later stating you weren't able to find much -- don't be embarrassed if that happens, a lot of people have a hard time with search engines -- and I'll be more than happy to post numerous links to excellent threads we've already had on nearly every imaginable topic.

Looking forward to your future posts and don't be surprised if your English becomes very polished very quickly, I've seen that happen here at least a dozen times.

[ December 06, 2003, 01:56 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]