Allied Strategy

[Wolfpack]

I'd like to hear some strategies from the allied POV. It seems most people are playing the Axis, which isn't surprising since you can generally do more with them in the limited time available, but I've really gotten a kick out of playing as the Allies (Well, the Brits and Canadians anyway, nobody else ever gets involved before the time is up except the Yugoslavs.) And none of those "I held out in France the whole time...I know you can do it, but it isn't easy when you put it up over default settings. (The experience switch really does the trick. Nice work on that feature)

Generally, I start off being a crappy alliance partner because I move all the air units to England, and evacuate the BEF as soon as the Germans start to crack the line, I'd rather not rebuild, so this helps a lot. I usually mass the southern French and UK navies to take out at least the Italian fleet at Taranto as soon as they come into the war. Taking out that sub is important since I need every MPP I can lay hands on. I also actively hunt down the German subs...usually they come out to play, so it isn't hard. After France has fallen, I look at what's left in the Med (If anything, the Italian fleet can really be a bear to try and take out) and in the North Seas. I figure out where I have the best chance to do some damage, either Norway (Pretty easy to take) or Spain. I've also had a game where I was able to throw a couple of armies and corps into Yugoslavia when they declared for me, which was nice. Spain is a nice choice since it opens up a (small) link to France that you can use once Spain is secure. Downside in a full game would be delaying U.S. entry. If I go after Norway, I usually knock Sweden out too while I'm there, but this has the same downside as Spain. I rarely have to do much in N. Africa, the Italians seem to show no inclination to rebuild their Empire, and the Germans show even less to help them. That's pretty much all I ever have time for, but I have some ideas about how I'd go about things further along. I think I'd be more inclined toward Churchill's strategy of a two pronged attack, into Norway and in the Med, but I'll have to see how the full game is. Heck, I'd pay for it right now if they let me play with the full beta. (hint hint)

[Galatine]

I tried the fall back strategy but it failed everytime. The income from sacking the lowlands is too great and give the Axis a yearly total edge.

I hold the Lowlands capital rotating out the Corp to moving in a British Army . The brits can afford to reinforce regularly and the Army is stronger. I operational move the Malta fighter squad to central France. (Italy generally won't enter the war unless Paris is burning.) Units in Canada and Gibralter are shipped to Europe ASAP.

I open a second front in the Northern Peninsula (A single corps by transport) and guard the land route by lining the seacoast with battleships. Any German unit heading North gets hammered on the way. I don't plan to hold the second front, but to force Germany to redirect forces from the France front and score some attrition.

By the time Germany resecures the North I've transported Alexander over to take charge of the British units who are positioned to hold the weak unfortified North edge of the Magnoit.

That usually gets me in postion to stall Germany for a few months but it never lasts.

[Wolfpack]

Originally posted by Galatine:

That usually gets me in postion to stall Germany for a few months but it never lasts.

Which is exactly why I don't leave any UK troops in France, you're going to lose France unless you get incredably lucky, and losing the Low Countries is offset by my taking Spain or Norway. England can't afford to rebuild units from scratch, they need too many things to make a go of it. That's why I pull it all out and leave the French to hold their own line. Usually I can make a fight of it through August or so, just making sure that I withdraw if I have to to keep a solid line and not allow flanking movements that will trap me. Last game I took Finland and Sweden before France fell, and was within one hex of taking Finland when it ended, I was pulling in about 210-215 MPPs a turn, and the Baltic was a British lake. Of course, the U.S. intervention rating was down to 1% too. I was surprised Russia's didn't drop when I invaded Finland, I figured they wouldn't like that too much. One thing I'd like to see is for the Italian navy to be a bit more agressive when it comes to hunting down the British navy. They can do it without too much risk, but they seem to be really lethargic for some reason. I had most of my navy down around Malta, and never even got a peek of an Italian ship. Next time I may just pull them out and use them to see if I can't make an invasion of Finland and Spain at the same time...should be interesting. Another thing I noticed in the last game was that instead of bombing my ports when they took France out, the Germans were going after my corps in London. I wonder if they were contemplating Sea Lion since I had pretty much my entire North Sea navy off around Sweden and Finland except for a 2 strength cruiser I couldn't afford to repair. Would be nice to see an AI that would at least have a chance to try it, I haven't seen one yet with the cajones to go for it, and I really stripped England bare.

[Galatine]

I don't think Sealion is the AI's intent for this particular scenario.

I'm fairly certain the scenario's pre-set goal is for Germany to complete the securing of Fortress Europe. Once that's done, the AI is content to sit pretty. Your strategy of moving directly to a British withdraw basically fufills that goal and so is unopposed.

I admit it is EXTREMELY hard to hold the lowlands(let alone France) but there in lies the challenge.

It would be interesting to see your strategy tested against a more flexible opponent. I suspect in a PBEM it would play out very differently.

[ May 22, 2002, 10:15 PM: Message edited by: Galatine ]

[Wolfpack]

Originally posted by Galatine:

I don't think Sealion is the AI's intent for this particular scenario.

Well, just that I'd never seen it do that, usually it concentrates on the ports, like Hubert said, it goes for the easy pickings.

I'm fairly certain the scenario's pre-set goal is for Germany to complete the securing of Fortress Europe. Once that's done, the AI is content to sit pretty. Your strategy of moving directly to a British withdraw basically fufills that goal and so is unopposed.

True enough to a point. It's not like I just let him stroll in and take Paris or anything, I fight, I just don't risk units that are irreplacable in the near future for little or no gain when they can be better used elsewhere.

I admit it is EXTREMELY hard to hold the lowlands(let alone France) but there in lies the challenge.

It would be interesting to see your strategy tested against a more flexible opponent. I suspect in a PBEM it would play out very differently.

I think it would work even better against a human as long as they didn't know what to expect. I never fail to take the Low Countries on turn 1. Unlike the AI who will dither around trying to kill that forward unit instead of going for the kill. And holding France against a human is going to be tougher too since most probably won't get the fixation on reducing the Maginot like the AI tends to do, so will have a better ability to push through in the North. But, that's just my thought on the matter, I plan to get a PBEM going tonight hopefully once my friend figures out what he's doing. We're pretty evenly matched when it comes to any wargame, we tend to split them pretty close to evenly, from CM to our few games of War in Russia, which is a great head to head game. I have high hopes for this one also.

I think my strategy would work better for the long term, but in a one year war, I can see where yours would probably be a better one. What you should try is setting Italy to historical entry and see how that affects it. I'd like to see how it goes. As a matter of fact, I'm about ready for my 6th or 7th game tonight, I think I'll try it myself.

[ May 22, 2002, 11:10 PM: Message edited by: Wolfpack ]

[rleete]

Okay, despite holding France (and even the low countries) on the easy setting, I can't even hold France for the full year, without some really good luck. My strategy is just the opposite of Wolfpack's. More akin to Galatine's.

Move everything you can to France, and hold on for dear life. Abandon Gibraltar, Alexandria and Beriut. The units farthest west are disbanded for the extra "cash".

Move the fleet up to the coast, and pound anything within range. Use the airpower defensively, and repair when necessary. Keep the Maginot line at full strength if possible. Only attack when odds are very favorable.

I tried the northern invasion route, and it does pull units off the front. It can even severely damage German air units, if you get a little lucky. Just be sure to keep both sides of the peninsula lined with ships, to bombard his units coming up to drive you off.

In general though, that is merely a delay, and will usually get a lot of stuff killed off. Then there's nothing to rebuild, and the French line is weakened. If you can hold the line for a year, that gives the USSR time to come in. It usually prevents the italians joining, and the other minor powers.

Don't buy corps, unless he's right at the gates of Paris. Wait, and get an army. Get the Brit HQ over there as fast as possible, as it really helps to influence air power duels. With the HQ, you need to reinforce less, thus building experience.

I have a couple of other tricks, but as my opponent reads the forum, they won't be revealed until I've stopped him cold.

[Wolfpack]

Originally posted by R_Leete:

Okay, despite holding France (and even the low countries) on the easy setting, I can't even hold France for the full year, without some really good luck. My strategy is just the opposite of Wolfpack's. More akin to Galatine's.

Move everything you can to France, and hold on for dear life. Abandon Gibraltar, Alexandria and Beriut. The units farthest west are disbanded for the extra "cash".

Move the fleet up to the coast, and pound anything within range. Use the airpower defensively, and repair when necessary. Keep the Maginot line at full strength if possible. Only attack when odds are very favorable.

I tried the northern invasion route, and it does pull units off the front. It can even severely damage German air units, if you get a little lucky. Just be sure to keep both sides of the peninsula lined with ships, to bombard his units coming up to drive you off.

In general though, that is merely a delay, and will usually get a lot of stuff killed off. Then there's nothing to rebuild, and the French line is weakened. If you can hold the line for a year, that gives the USSR time to come in. It usually prevents the italians joining, and the other minor powers.

Don't buy corps, unless he's right at the gates of Paris. Wait, and get an army. Get the Brit HQ over there as fast as possible, as it really helps to influence air power duels. With the HQ, you need to reinforce less, thus building experience.

I have a couple of other tricks, but as my opponent reads the forum, they won't be revealed until I've stopped him cold.

Against a PBEM opponant your strategy would deplete France's already low MPP allowance, since he'd be able to send a few units off to take your far flung areas. But then, he has to figure out you did it I guess huh? I just tried holding out and doing the northern invasion (Historical Italian entry, +1 exp) I managed to hold him out of the Low countries for 2 turns, got the BEF killed after they moved in to take over for the Belgian corps, my ships got absolutely slaughtered by his air power...he was hitting for 5 regularly...even after I moved some of my Med fleet up to help out. I did manage to hold out in France until November, once again because of his fixation on the Maginot, but he snuck past Marsailles and worked his way up the coast with an Italian army which I could do nothing to stop since every bit of cash I had was going into rebuilding my forces. It was a battle of attrition, and the Germans won. By the time he took Paris, I had bled him pretty well, but I was in such bad shape that he would have had no worries from me for a good long while. I was faced with the prospect of rebuilding my navy and air force, or building an army, no possible way to do both. My northern invasion pulled off exactly one German armored unit that summarily kicked my rear back out after my BBs decided to start shooting blanks at him when he came up. Personally I think that if I'd used those units to invade Norway, I would have been better off. My bomber was completely useless because of the German's superiority in fighters, so I could have used it, a couple of cruisers that weren't doing much, and about 2 corps to invade Norway, get the extra MPPs, which would help hold out in France, plus perhaps let me build up a little reserve to occasionally buy an extra unit or two. Holding out for Russian entry would be a nice thing, but there aren't any guarantees about a time frame for that...besides, then you'd condemn most of Europe to fall behind the Iron Curtain...and I just can't have that.

[StugIII]

Originally posted by R_Leete:

Okay, despite holding France (and even the low countries) on the easy setting, I can't even hold France for the full year, without some really good luck. My strategy is just the opposite of Wolfpack's. More akin to Galatine's.

Move everything you can to France, and hold on for dear life. Abandon Gibraltar, Alexandria and Beriut. The units farthest west are disbanded for the extra "cash".

Move the fleet up to the coast, and pound anything within range. Use the airpower defensively, and repair when necessary. Keep the Maginot line at full strength if possible. Only attack when odds are very favorable.

I tried the northern invasion route, and it does pull units off the front. It can even severely damage German air units, if you get a little lucky. Just be sure to keep both sides of the peninsula lined with ships, to bombard his units coming up to drive you off.

In general though, that is merely a delay, and will usually get a lot of stuff killed off. Then there's nothing to rebuild, and the French line is weakened. If you can hold the line for a year, that gives the USSR time to come in. It usually prevents the italians joining, and the other minor powers.

Don't buy corps, unless he's right at the gates of Paris. Wait, and get an army. Get the Brit HQ over there as fast as possible, as it really helps to influence air power duels. With the HQ, you need to reinforce less, thus building experience.

I have a couple of other tricks, but as my opponent reads the forum, they won't be revealed until I've stopped him cold.

Keep talking, I'm trying to get all this down.

[ May 23, 2002, 01:07 AM: Message edited by: StugIII ]