Serious discussions?

[pzgndr]

I was recently challenged to define what we all might possibly have to talk about here on the forum. For you youngsters out there who have never played Avalon Hill's Third Reich or ever had a chance to eagerly await the next edition of The General, you probably don't realize how stimulating a well-written article on strategy and tactics in a well-played game can be. It used to be that wargamers only had monthly magazines to exchange thoughts, not instant internet forums, so quality and patience were the rule. In 1985, AH put together a Wargamer's Guide to Third Reich, which was basically a collection of some of the best 3R articles written thus far. They were (drum roll please):

Grand Strategy in Third Reich - Introduction to the Most Popular Strategic Game

The Fuehrer's War - German Play under the Third Edition [3R went on to 4th Ed., then A3R]

"A Green and Pleasant Land" - Sealion Versus Cromwell

The Unsolved Problem - In Defense of France

The Long Road From Rome - An Italian Strategy

Soviet Options - Russian Play in Third Reich

BRP Warfare - The Clash of Economics [bRP=MPP]

Diplomacy in Third Reich - Another Facet of the Strategic Game [Political Considerations?]

Advanced Tactics - Tricks of the Trade

and, The Definitive Question Box - And Answers from the Experts.

All of these topics are suitable for in depth essays regarding game play in Strategic Command. I would add at least two more: Research Strategies in SC and Yankee Options - American Play in SC. Game Options and Settings would also be a worthy topic. Rough ideas can and should be proposed and hashed out here on the forum. But ultimately, after considerably more game play experience, well-written articles could emerge that could become an electronic version of the Wargamer's Guide to Strategic Command. THAT, gentlemen, would be a worthy goal to aspire to. Being able to articulate all of the strengths and weaknesses of SC will help everyone become better gamers and also help drive changes for SC2.

Along the way, give some attention to possible scenario mods that may provide the "definitive" game - for both historical accuracy and play balance (within the limits of the current SC game design, of course). I think my Campaign mods are a pretty good start here, but I'll let others decide for themselves whether they go too far or not far enough. Either way, there should be a concensus on baseline scenarios and game settings so that "serious discussions" can at least be consistent. This isn't a homework assignment for everyone; it's just a suggestion for those of us inclined to take this game to a higher level.

Anyway, HAVE FUN. Play the game, enjoy the game, use it to make new friends, and use it to gain a deeper appreciation of WWII grand strategy. It should be cherished, not abused.

[JerseyJohn]

Excellent. And as I have added many times in he past, Bill, Excellent as usual!

[Carl G. E. von Mannerheim]

Ill start something up

CvM

edit- told you I would, Here!

[ December 30, 2002, 10:25 PM: Message edited by: Carl Von Mannerheim ]

[SeaWolf_48]

Good message Bill.

This site is so much better than the General, although it was great for it's time. I would like to see playablity foremost in SC, but I think this game already has it. So secondly I think historic value is my most important quality. For example: Italy having too big of an army, Germans having SS Corps, The Democracys attacking another democracy, Belgium (this has never happened in history),the US supplying MPP's to Britain and the USSR, Ice Land, Etc. Not the what ifs!

[BriantheWise]

Bill,

I remember those days well, and fondly. I still have a copy of that magazine about 3rd Reich. It's with the game. I remember when they came out with those strategic options (I think that's what they were called and it's been a while). There were like ten possibles for each side and you were supposed to secretly draw a chit and receive one of those (like German U-boats have increased effectiveness, and so on). We were kids then and didn't bother with that. We took them all.

Sleepovers on a Friday night after school, with pop and chips and an all night 3rd Reich tournament. (We were a bit dorky then, but we were very smart dorks. One of the memories that make me smile, was a couple of the players that were in our group were doing a little smoke in those days would take a break after about an hour of playing, and the game would slow way way way down. We stopped that after a couple of times, because the rest of us were going bats).

Ah the memories....Thank god for this game, cause it's too late to go back to that one.

[JerseyJohn]

The General was good and in the mid-sixties about the only game in town. The wargame/history magazine I really loved was Simulations Publications Inc. SPI was based on subscriptions and arrived each month with it's own complete game and a magazine full of articles relating to it. They also sold compartmentalized plastic boxes with a clear top that could be bought in bulk so the games could be stored neatly away.

They also had a full line of games seperate from the magazine and the first issue of the Mag came with it's bonus game, Waterloo. French units were Inf/Cav Brigades with Art Battalions; Brit and Allied were same size though irregularly organized (a nice historical touch) with Blucher's Prussians organized as Regiments (3 to a Div vs the others 2, but the Brigades were stronger than the smaller regiments.) It was simple, easy to play, and a great introduction to wargaming.

If you happened to be in midtown Manhattan you could always drop in their shop/store on 23rd street and talk to them for hours while they worked on projects. If you actually bought a game they were really friendly!

[jon_j_rambo]

All I wanted from the magazine "The General" were their inserted Squad Leader scenarios. They'd even have an article regarding that particular "Pin-Up" scenario; where to put the HMG, hide your 75mm, etc. My favorite scenario they put in there was the MEGA Stalaingrad one. I think it covered 9-boards or something. It was pretty darn big scenario. I loved those Russian -4 snipers!

[BriantheWise]

Jersey John, I remember subscribing to SPI. It was a great idea. Get a cheap game, a good magazine, every two months. Some of the games were pretty bad, but hey, it was ok. (The Waterloo game was great. I wore out those counters!)

Rambo, you date yourself. You can't be too! much younger than me, if you were playing Squad Leader, and reading the General. It was good stuff. Then came computers, and SSI, and those great games (some. lot's actually): War in Russia (in black and white on an Atari on the TV. Took me a year to play through. The Surface fleet games. I can't even remember some of them, but there was a time that if SSI came out with a game, I bought it. Then of course, came Civilization and my perpective changed.

Strange how they can figure out how to make that work on IP.

[BriantheWise]

can't

[JerseyJohn]

BriantheWise

"... I remember subscribing to SPI. It was a great idea. Get a cheap game, a good magazine, every two months. Some of the games were pretty bad, but hey, it was ok. . . ."

Forgot it was every other month, remembered it as a monthly and some of those games were sort of weird but a few gems came through, like the Civil War and War in the Pacific editions. What I really liked was the magazine.

Our friend used to read the General, etc. Hmmmm, maybe 12 yrs old but born on Feb. 29th.

[Konstantin V. Kotelnikov]

Remember the issue with the Warsaw Uprising game?

There was just something perverse about attacking unarmed poles with panzer units.

Ah the good old days.

[JerseyJohn]

Konstantin

"There was just something perverse about attacking unarmed poles with panzer units. -- Ah, the Good Old Days!"

You've really got it today! --

[ December 31, 2002, 03:08 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]