End of the game.

[waltero]

I have played many good games of SC.

my last game was played agianst rambo :mad:

he kicks my arss every time.

this last game I thought I was doing good

He had totally pulled out of russia. (thought that was great).

I had invaded france through brest (ustable) made landings in germany managed to capture a few city's in germany, just to give him something to do.

we both had our lines drawn on the east front (Stalemate). we are piddle didleing in africa.

As russia I spent alot on research. nothing! (early on I had jet level 2)

germany had kept his air off the front line for some time (think he was waiting for tech)

I could see all units on front line, spotted a lonly HQ decided to build up my air fleets.

I waited five turns and had 6 level 2 air fleets

Ok it was time to strike All my air was backed by HQ. I started to pound his HQ NO LUCK!

(Oh by the way he had moved his HQ the turn I started to pound it so no entrenchment).

oh well. I thought, It coast him anyway. I moved my air in the direction of any HQ I could see.

I pounded anouther HQ a few turns later killed it :eek: I think all in all I elimitated two German HQs. ok good! now it was time to bust hole in the line.

I reanforced all my air units ready for the attack.

Next turn was going to be the starting of the end!

I started to pound first unit with my air, first strike nothing second nothing 3 nothing 4 nothing 5 nothing,(this unit was not backed by any HQ that I could see, had killed it last turn) ok I thought I would keep trying. the whole year I was pounding his front line NOTHING!!! His units were like indistructible.

there is nothing I could do. he had inf anti tank 1. I had five in research for some time now, nothing! he would attack my units on front line and kill half strength if not all with one blow! and would never take any hits :confused:

serious I could not beleave it. What am I to do! just sit and parly with him tell my units get the same exp as his?

there is something wrong here I dont know what but I know there is!

Rambo exicutes most his moves with exact efficiancy. he has done some moves that I know I could never get away with.

things go his way too often.

Althogh he knows the mechanics of this game like no other( and I am still learning them)It should not be so.

I am at a loss in the random end of this game.

and that is what has killed it for me.

I will continue the game I have going with rambo but it will be My last one for awhile.

When you have Five jet air and can do nothin what is the use!

twas a fun game for awhile.

Well back to CMBB if I can find my cd :confused:

I don't have any prob with rambo, But I would have to question his integrity.

If a guy did what he did to me and brianthewise what next? I have played games with him and A couple of times he had dropped out and I had to restart and autosave couse his would not work.

so I start mine and is a turn behind. ( how convenient)I notice he did do things diff.

I dont know if there is any way a guy could cheat at this game. But if there is he would be the first I would look at

His play is just to percise.

oh well that is it.

its been fun cya around Have fun

pordom my spelling!

[ December 30, 2002, 12:45 AM: Message edited by: waltero ]

[Fubarno]

I have experienced how easy is to cheat at this game.

I was playing a person with the handle of 'Planet' and he was axis. He was somewhat of a beginner it seemed and I was giving him some real problems in France. He couldn't take Paris and I was eliminating all of his armor and some air.

The funny thing was he asked me a couple of times if I was cheating and where did I get all those fleets and that French HQ unit, etc,... I asked him if he had ever even played as the allies and the answer was no so I told him how I sold my French air to buy the HQ and that the allies start with lots of fleets.

He had the historical settings for the Soviets so it took them a while to enter but they eventually did a turn or two before he captured Paris. He said he would play out the game to the bitter end which I appreciated. At no time do I suspect or accuse him of cheating.

He had literally no defence in the east and within 4-5 turns or so of the Soviets invading Poland and Germany, they are poised to capture Berlin and I tell him he has one turn to live. He responds that will not be the case.

His turn takes just a little longer than usual but nothing suspicious. Then I get the turn back and he says, "now you will taste German Steel." Surounding Berlin are a many new panzer corps and he has close to 10,000 mpp's.

Now, I know planet played an honest game up until the end when I had to laugh and accuse him of robbing all the banks of Switzerland, but it just goes to show how easy it is to do something like this to try to win. Obviously if a player wanted to sneakily add some key units and a few extra mpp's to tip the balance, it doesn't appear to be hard. I guess it wouldn't be too hard to adjust some of the unit formulas too. I pesonally don't know how to do so but, I remeber someone a while back in this forum had used a hexidecimal editor to do some of this type of game cracking. (Let me reiterate, I don't think Planet cheated, but he knows how to.)

What satisfaction one could derive from doing something so stupid as cheating to insure victory in a friendly game is beyond me. Is the bragging really that satisfying?

Anyway, it seems that the capability to cheat is out there. I have not played Rambo but some of the posts regarding his play do seem to smell fishy. Of course he will say he is innocent until proven guilty and that is the way it should be. But, some harm has been done.

Whatever is said and done, nothing will entirely wipe away from the back of my mind the thought that an opponent has the potential to cheat in a head to head game. This is a stain on this great and fun game. And, it looks like it has turned a very active player off from competing in a game he enjoyed and that is sad.

To all cheaters - you have got to be one of the lowest forms of life. Cheaters have sucked a big chunk of fun from this game. Go get some therapy because there are some issues you need to work out. It's probably hopeless though so just sterilize yourself so that your bloodline will end when you do.

[Carl G. E. von Mannerheim]

Planet sounds like Hags.

If you havent been on the forum for a few months, dont ask

[JerseyJohn]

Fubarno is right. As a Therapist I can say with authority that you cheaters will never change and also that you will pass this despicable trait down to new generations. So, as a Medical Doctor I will give you free advice on sterilization. Drop your pants, if you are right handed hold a butterknife in your right hand, if left handed then your left. Go into the lavatory, stand in the shower, run the cold water, drop your drawers and . . ."

[ December 29, 2002, 11:12 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

[Canuck]

"His turn takes just a little longer than usual but nothing suspicious. Then I get the turn back and he says, "now you will taste German Steel." Surounding Berlin are a many new panzer corps and he has close to 10,000 mpp's."

You mean he actually was able to tweak his own game to give him those extra MPP's???

That's very disconcerting. I had been under the impression that the only possible cheating would be to restart the turn ( the downfall of IGOUGO games?)

If he can manipulate game files to gain an advantage then that is just poor cheat prevention by the programmer in my view.

[jon_j_rambo]

Waltero --- That was a CLASSIC. 18-hours of straight game play, a heavyweight match. That was the best game you've played against me. The French tank strength-11 in Paris was the biggest bitch to dig out. His experience was 2.5 or something! It took me to November '40 to hack thru every last Frenchmen. The British navy wore me out too, & your carriers survived the fight in the West (at least the early fight).

I was thinking about SeaLion, but declined. In previous games I had done SeaLion against you (both my Spring '41 & Spring '42 versions) so I wanted to mix it up. I thought about another Turkish invasion at the same time as Barbarossa (I call that my "Thin Red Line" play), but wanted something new for you to deal with......So it was off to Spain, only one major probably! As I positioned my troops & crushed Vichey, the damn minors won't join before my Spanish Crusade! I sat there waiting, and nothing! Finally I had to jump. I had cursed my Facist Axis minors & would have to convert them myself.

The war in Russia was off to a decent start, until I sent 3-solid-experienced-strength-11 armies out too far. You cut them German bastards off & killed my HQ, nice move!!!!!!!!!!!! That set me back a year! I had to do a full-retreat in the Southern flank, operand Italy's small army & HQ for defense that otherwise was going to jump on Romanian who I had pissed off by capturing Spain. That move damn near won you the game. I was already dreading the next Forum's post: "Rambo gets hammered, Russian's take Berlin!"

You had me sealed in. I pulled all the way to Warsaw, the Russians were getting $480/turn & I was only getting $380/turn. I did catch a break by getting the strength-11 army tech early, but that's all I could get. My freakin' airforce was chopped up & used all over the planet. We battled in every country on the board except Turkey, Ireland, & Swiss-Land. When I pulled back I knew Romania was the next warzone. You had me outnumbered 2-1, but I had some bad-ass armies! They're a bitch, aren't they? You were fighting strength-11's with experience 4-stars, hunkered behind rivers, in cities, & in the moutains. My leaders had 4-star experience too. The battles reminded me of Squad Leader games pitted with these conditions.

Then I saw you got Jets strength-12 with Russia & I was looking doomed. You are correct, I flew the hell out of there, fast, put my best people on Jet-developement to match the Russians.

18-hours of straight play. Hats off to you for going the distance with Rambo. We've played alot of games (8 to be exact) & you just might catch me.

Rambo >>>>> Will go the distance if necessary.

[Scorpion_sk]

Two options:

a) Waltero lies, as do all others who have voiced their suspicions, and this Rambo character wins his game with his superb intelligence and knowledge of the game that makes everyone pale in comparison every single time against all comers, and all those surprising results in some of the battles are just consistent good luck

or

All those stunts pulled off by him aren´t succesful just because he is so skilled, and all the "random results" are not as random as they should be.

Lacking first-had knowledge, I really cannot tell which it is.

[Friedrich_der_2]

I do not think Rambo is cheating but I never played against him

Yesterday in my first game against an human I saw such a strange behavoir of a few of my units. Russia declared war to early and I bought five chorps to defend my eastern front. With the one chorps already there I had only six chorps there. No HQ, no air fleets no other armies or tanks. Russia attacked especially the chorps on my southern end of the line. At the end one chorps was attacked by five air fleets and three ground units. And after weeks of attacking the chorps not even one of my chorps were lost when General Manstein with his armies arrived there. The 6 complete inexperienced chorps defended Germany against 13 ground units and 5 air fleets.

In some games against the AI I also saw some invincible units. I think the random factor is sometimes too great.

Sven :eek:

[ December 30, 2002, 09:59 AM: Message edited by: Sven1969 ]

[waltero]

I never said I thought rambo cheated.

I was just wondering (being that I am computer illiterate, or just a illiterate) if it was possible for one to cheat.

I was told that five air was the kiss of death.

I get six air and it is no kiss of death!

I do think rambo has picked this game apart and knows the exact numbers for everything.

what this game needs is a record!!!

so we can play the whole game and look at how things were done.

I have never experianced troops that have four medals, or level 14 Itialian battleships.

I can do nothing agianst them!!!

rambo fights with honor! (exept that stunt he pulled with brianthewise.)

sure I have waited all day for a game, then I see two getting together for a game, and I thought about jumping into ip but I never did.

to me that would be the same as cheating!

A while back I said I lost units due to the activation of vichy, well I did lose cities but I am not sure if I lost units. I just noticed that thay were not there. Hubert said thay moved back to Italy, so be it. did not notice becouse game was over. Sorry! my mistake.

I love this game! but the fact that I nor anybody else can beat rambo makes it suck.

Good day!

[Fubarno]

I didn't say Rambo cheated either. I only said that some recent posts regarding him smell fishy and that he is innocent until proven otherwise.

My main point was that SC can be cracked in a way that may not arouse suspicion if that was the cheaters intent. I had it demonstrated to me. Maybe if Planet reads this he can explain how it was done, but logically all one would need to do is save ones turn and somehow go into that save file, add the mpp's or whatever and reload and play.

[Konstantin V. Kotelnikov]

In theory would it be possible to locate a saved game and modify it? I reckon it would all depend on how the information is listed in the save file and the expertise of the person editing it.

Is it possible to edit a saved game in the scenario editor?

Would it be possible to create a scenario based on where a game was last left off, then run it and save it over the old saved file?

Sure it would take time, but where there is a will there is a way.

Hmmmmmm... Experimentation time.

[waltero]

why? why would a game be so easy for one to do this?

to those that cheat, do you know you are losers is that why you cheat.

you think it really matters if you win agianst one who plays with strategy and honor.

If you can not win a game with your own brain power, then you should give up games.

the fact that you cheat and win does not mean you are better or the best it just means that you have learned nothing in this life.

to cheat steal lie just means you think everybody is as dumb as you.

so grow up and have respect for yourself. know that you can compete on a even playing field with others.

I play games becouse I feel that I am as good as anybody out there. and I don't need to cheat to prove it.

Play for honor. not for the win. what does it really matter if you win?

you will never learn strategy or the game if you focus on how to cheat.

Have you ever lost a game and in the prosses you pulled a move that just blew everybody away!

even though you lost, it was fun!

I am a big bord gamer. I play to have fun even if I know I will lose, I play maybe just to take someone out with me.

this is not real war this is a game.

so you continue to cheat, it is ok (you will learn nothing). and I will continue to play and have fun.

I could understand cheating if there was $ involved

pardon my spelling

good day!

[82ndReady]

I remember reading one time that Rambo had written in another thread to Hubert about getting his code protected...well Rambo what was that about?

Are there people out there hacking into copywritten code and cheating at SC??? :mad:

PBEM is just a text file which then can be interchanged with your TCP...I have not really looked into this but I believe when your opponent finishes his/her turn you could then have changed your file with your changes before it becomes your turn and all of a sudden you have some more MPP or stronger units or whatever???

Hubert is this true?? You most likely won't answer this but, if it is, this really does need to be addressed to keep this game on the up-n-up!

[Konstantin V. Kotelnikov]

Originally posted by waltero:

why?

Waltero,

For some people winning is the most important thing and that the end justifies the means.

I agree with what you said, however not everyone does. Just look at the nightly news.

People cheat everywhere. People cheat on taxes. Heck, I'm a Wisconsin Badgers fan and I heard the story saturday that four members of the football team are under investigation for cheating on their finals. I have seen people fired from where I work for cheating on production numbers.

Play with honor and no matter what happens, be comfortable with the fact that you at least did what was right.

Hold your head up high, it is something to be proud of.

[Yohan]

Irish Guards posted a while ago about Rambo changing file names all the time, this is starting to sound very suspicious.

I used to play a lot of Master of Orion on the old TEN network until it became clear people could modify files and cheat. Italian BBs at 14 seems pretty strange to me. Sounds like tech being manipulated.

[jon_j_rambo]

YoHan --- How computer illiterate can you get?

I want you to explain to everybody (or Irish Guards, or whoever), just exactly what the "File Name" means in a PBEM? What significance does it have?

Please tell me.

If you can't tell me the answer I will kindly explain it to you. If you don't like me I would like somebody else on the Forum that YoHan trusts to explain it to him. If not we will ask the developers. If not me, your Forum buddies, or the developers of SC can explain it to you, I will pay the $300 tuition fee so you get enrolled in a "Computer Concepts 101" class at a local JC (That means Junior College). If you're under 18 years old, I recommend asking your parents, pastor, or teacher(s) for educational guidance.

Please respond what significance changing the names of a PBEM has.

Thank, & look forward to your reponse,

Rambo >>>>>>> This should be good

P.S. Were your great-great-great-great relatives in charge of the Salem Witch Trials?

[ December 30, 2002, 07:49 PM: Message edited by: jon_j_rambo ]

[Scorpion_sk]

I take back what I said about the options, but there must be SOMETHING fishy going on. Perhaps not with the players, but then with the program....

[Konstantin V. Kotelnikov]

OK, now I'm not accusing anybody of anything fishy. It don't matter to me who does what to whom and when.

But I enjoy tinkering on this infernal machine so when I got home from work, hooked up my girlfriends new home theater (maybe I'll get more SC time), I went and opened a saved game file.

It was an AI game and I was the Axis. I found it very interesting, the saved files opened just fine in MS word and here is a portion of what it looks like:

67108864 usa_random

67108864 usa_neutral

67108864 war_in_siberia

67108864 scorched_earth

67108864 fog_of_war

67108864 free_french_units

67108864 russian_partisans

67108864 yugoslavian_partisans

67108864 display_last_turn_summary

67108864 disable_undo

67108864 sound_effects

67108864 show_resource_strengths

67108864 hex_grid

4160749568 allied_password

4160749568 axis_password

20 COMMANDER_INFO 0 2

268435456 rating

4160749568 name

21 MAP_POSITION 0 2

268435456 y

268435456 x

41 LINKABLE 1 65535 2

4160749568 right

4160749568 item

73 SAVE_GAME 0 18

268435456 pbem_load_count

67108864 reset_pbem_load_count

4160749568 suez_transport_list

4160749568 version_text

4160749568 last_scenario

4160749568 replay_list

4160749568 research_summary_list

4160749568 activity_summary_list

4160749568 losses_summary_list

4160749568 italy_plan_list

4160749568 germany_plan_list

4160749568 russia_plan_list

4160749568 usa_plan_list

4160749568 france_plan_list

4160749568 england_plan_list

There were 370+ pages of code and such. I had no problem modifying it and saving it.

The only thing I have no clue on is what the various code means. I'm sure if I tinkered around with it and looked at several different games I could figure some of it out.

It's very similiar to some of the codes that you could modify in Civilization II. Which is always fun. Allowed me to get rid of those pesky helicopters that the AI kept building and parking in my territory. Of course when you changed those rules they also affected you.

So in other words if there was a smart fellar, and there are a quiet of few of them around, they could easily modify a saved game.

Maybe that is something they could address in SC2 and make it read only. Of course that might cause problems with saving over a old game or deleting a saved game. I'm not sure as I'm not a programer.

Very interesting to say the least.

[jon_j_rambo]

You know what's dumber than people that don't understand the question?

Me, for even bothering.

[ December 31, 2002, 12:02 AM: Message edited by: jon_j_rambo ]

[wlweir]

Originally posted by Sven1969:

At the end one chorps was attacked by five air fleets and three ground units. And after weeks of attacking the chorps not even one of my chorps were lost when General Manstein with his armies arrived there. The 6 complete inexperienced chorps defended Germany against 13 ground units and 5 air fleets.

Sven :eek: [/QB]

I remember that well! I was wondering how many Airfleets and Armies it had to take to kill an inexperienced corps.

[BriantheWise]

I'm glad I'm reading this thread instead of writing it (Upon reflection, I felt I had come across as way too indignant. It's only a game!)

I've found some great opponents out there and played them. Waltero, your one of them (though we only played for a while). Iron Ranger is another. And I can tell from the posts and threads, there are many more.

So I guess one simply has to pick and choose who own plays (just be careful, alias can change too).

The worst part is the game is so addictive, there are so many wonderful players, and so little time.