Friendly Fire Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 IT tech, is it worth the investment? I asked this question of my dear friend, Economist Eddy "So Eddy, it is a good idea to research IT? With every point I save 5% on all my toys! But 250 MPP is a lot to spend!" "Well FF, it all depends. And really you are only spending 125MPP, because you can sell the point later." "You know Eddy, it will surprise no one that an economist comes up with such a wishy washy answer" "No really, it depends! Lets look at some numbers! Economy Payoff Payback Period 100______5______38 200_____10______26 300_____15______21 400_____20______19 500_____25______18 600_____30______17 700_____35______17 800_____40______16 900_____45______16 Column 1 is the size of the economy, in MPP per turn. Column 2 is the amount you save, assuming you spend the entire economic output on units" "But that's not quite true, what about research? We spend on that too!" "Good catch! Forget about it, lets just go with the assumption okay? You can't get anywhere in economics without assumptions. Now, where was I?. Oh yeah, column 3 is the expected time it takes for the benefit of the investment to reach the cost of the benefit. After this time period you can sell the research point and you are still ahead!" "How did you calculate the payoff period?" "Okay, that's some pretty simple math. It takes on average 13 or so turns for a single R&D point to generate a tech advance. And it takes 125MPP/payoff additional turns to reach the balance point" "Wow, it doesn't take long to pay off the investment when you have a large economy! A little over one game year!" "You got it FF, so next time you play Axis in the 39 scenario throw a point into IT, it will payoff big time over the course of a long war" "But you know Eddy, I really hate to fall behind in the jet tech race. I could have used that point to get ahead it jets, that's got to be worth something" "Well FF, that's up to you. See if I care when you can't afford to repair those fancy jets!" "Umm, okay thanks Eddy! I'm going to write this up in the forum and see what everyone has to say about it. I bet someone will think you are full of s##t!" "Believe me FF, when you are an economist, you get used to that. But FF, you know what would really payoff" "No, what?" "Giving up that game and focus on the real world!" "Uh, okay Eddy, I'll get right on that. Just want to post this first. And I have a few turns to finish, can't let anyone down, you know" [ March 16, 2004, 02:12 AM: Message edited by: Friendly Fire ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 Friendly I think it really depends on what country we're talking about. Germany & USSR -- sure it pays for them to research Industrial, both of those countries will be building plenty of units and the cost reduction will serve them well. As to the others nations, I'll defer to the opinions of better players than myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friendly Fire Posted March 16, 2004 Author Share Posted March 16, 2004 JerseyJohn, this is the whole point. The table clearly indicates that the investment is best for USSR and Germany, those are the nations with the largest economy. For the USA with an economy of around 200, it takes a long time for the investment to pay off. Beside, the USA already has IT advances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 Germany --- Yes, put 1-chit into IT (in most cases). You'll be fighting those Russians with IT+2, so the "catch up" research will land you an advance or two. It also depends on what strategy you're going to use. Lets say, you're "In the Mood" -Glen Miller, to conduct SeaLion....THEN screw any tech. Use the French plunder for Luftwaffen repairs Lets say you're going to R.A.C.K. (Rambo Axis Carrier Kracker), then EITHER, buy IT very soon in order to save cash until IT is gotten. Thus, you'll batch order those flatops. OR, buy IT after Barbarossa, spend the cash training, & catch up to the Commies with a bonus. Depends on strategy. I could go on & on with other examples. 1-chit in IT is worth it for any country. Being flexible is what wins games. Don't forget, if you're getting invaded or getting your ass kicked (the end could be near), sell the research for much needed troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 Friendly, It's always nice to accidentally trip over a correct answer! I was going by a rule of thumb and didn't fully understand your chart -- at 3:00 a.m. details aren't something I'm able to deal with. Okay, still not really getting into the table -- I'm sorry about that but I'm too bleary-eyed right now -- let me add that the other thing I've found is if you're getting good results with other research, you virtually can't afford to buy those advanced units without a decent Industrial Tech Level. I'd bet that's also in the three columns somewhere, if it is I'm sorry for laboring the obvious -- again, it's only my own rule of thumb reasoning. You've hit upon a good point regarding countries like the UK, the U. S. and Italy -- France being fairly temporary so I won't include it. As the Axis I try to allow Italy to conquer a few countries so it will have enough MPPs to conduct research, including Industrial. I realize many of the better players disagree with me, but without some conquests it doesn't have the economy to support research and unit production. The feebleness of the U. S. economy, with it's 180 base MPP has been an issue for a long time and the point you've made is one of the reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 getting that IT tech is hard. If you got the money for it yeah. I've sat on IT and AT techs for years and never got a return. Really makes you sour to invest in anything but the most required fields. LR and Jet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friendly Fire Posted March 17, 2004 Author Share Posted March 17, 2004 Hey Liam, I share this experience, but really the only reason that LR and Jet research should go any faster is because of the catch up rule... I find that Italians are great at getting AT and all the major powers do pretty well with Jet tech. All the other techs are really dicey. (I just ended a game where USSR had 4 chits in rockets for the entire war with no advances, fortunately for me the war didn't depend on that) All of this must be an illusion caused by the way the game handles tech, there is a very large statistical distribution... [ March 17, 2004, 01:20 AM: Message edited by: Friendly Fire ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian (the semi-wise) Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 Agree, sadly, with Rambo. Put a tech on "IT". Always. It pays for itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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