Batavian Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 HeavyJunk, Probably others could answer this better, but let me give a shot. Don't think you got an actual answer to your question. From what I understand, the "Italian Gambit" is a strategy used by the Alllies. It comes about due to an exploit in the game, not a cheat, not a bug. If the Allies send an amphibious unit just off the coast of Italy, before Italy has entered the war, the can safely land the unit and take the city of Bari. How? When Italy enters the war this way(an Allied declaration of war), the city of Bari, and for that matter the city of Venice, are not garrisoned. Therefore, one can immeadiately take either or both of the cities unopposed. With the supply gained from these cities, one can suppport an invasion and create havoc for the Axis player. That's not all. If one prepares your navy, one can take out the Italian navy as well. In a game I played against the AI Axis, I declared war on Italy. I occupied Bari and Venice and destroyed most of the Italian Navy immeadiately after my declaration of war. The occupation of Venice did not last long since I could not support the unit at all. However I was able to hold Bari, using my navy to bombard any Axis units that tried to dislodge it. Eventually, I was able to take Palermo, and then Rome, forcing Italy to surrender. Germany tried to fight to hold northern Italy, but since this drew away strength from the invasion of France, France never fell. That, of course, is a best case scenario, against the AI played at 0% difficulty. Against a human opponent, it would be much more difficult. However, it would cause the human player to be distracted and quite probably delay the fall of France, possibly critically. On a side note, if anyone has tried this "Italian Gambit", has anyone noticed the way the AI foolishly moves its unit out of Palermo in a vain attempt to retake Bari? All that does is allow me to walk into Palermo (amphib landing) and easily kill the former Palermo garrison due to lack of supply. So comments anyone? Did I, a relative newbie, describe the Italian Gambit reasonably accurate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batavian Posted March 2, 2003 Author Share Posted March 2, 2003 HeavyJunk, Probably others could answer this better, but let me give a shot. Don't think you got an actual answer to your question. From what I understand, the "Italian Gambit" is a strategy used by the Alllies. It comes about due to an exploit in the game, not a cheat, not a bug. If the Allies send an amphibious unit just off the coast of Italy, before Italy has entered the war, the can safely land the unit and take the city of Bari. How? When Italy enters the war this way(an Allied declaration of war), the city of Bari, and for that matter the city of Venice, are not garrisoned. Therefore, one can immeadiately take either or both of the cities unopposed. With the supply gained from these cities, one can suppport an invasion and create havoc for the Axis player. That's not all. If one prepares your navy, one can take out the Italian navy as well. In a game I played against the AI Axis, I declared war on Italy. I occupied Bari and Venice and destroyed most of the Italian Navy immeadiately after my declaration of war. The occupation of Venice did not last long since I could not support the unit at all. However I was able to hold Bari, using my navy to bombard any Axis units that tried to dislodge it. Eventually, I was able to take Palermo, and then Rome, forcing Italy to surrender. Germany tried to fight to hold northern Italy, but since this drew away strength from the invasion of France, France never fell. That, of course, is a best case scenario, against the AI played at 0% difficulty. Against a human opponent, it would be much more difficult. However, it would cause the human player to be distracted and quite probably delay the fall of France, possibly critically. On a side note, if anyone has tried this "Italian Gambit", has anyone noticed the way the AI foolishly moves its unit out of Palermo in a vain attempt to retake Bari? All that does is allow me to walk into Palermo (amphib landing) and easily kill the former Palermo garrison due to lack of supply. So comments anyone? Did I, a relative newbie, describe the Italian Gambit reasonably accurate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 Batavian As far as I can see you described it fine. I like Bill Macon's 1939 MOD solution of assigning 250 MPPs to neutral Italy so it can buy two corps upon entering the war. Can't understand why Hubert left two Italian home cities ungarrisoned. With the French I think Marsielles should also be garrissoned in the '39 scenario. [ March 01, 2003, 09:35 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 Batavian As far as I can see you described it fine. I like Bill Macon's 1939 MOD solution of assigning 250 MPPs to neutral Italy so it can buy two corps upon entering the war. Can't understand why Hubert left two Italian home cities ungarrisoned. With the French I think Marsielles should also be garrissoned in the '39 scenario. [ March 01, 2003, 09:35 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Junk Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 Thanks for the explanation Batavian, Sounds like what I figured it would be. Italy is sitting there, exposed, before the fall of France...I dont think I would use this tactic though, seems to go agianst the spirit of the game. Regards HJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Junk Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 Thanks for the explanation Batavian, Sounds like what I figured it would be. Italy is sitting there, exposed, before the fall of France...I dont think I would use this tactic though, seems to go agianst the spirit of the game. Regards HJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 Problems with the italian gambit are many however. First of all Italy comes into the war earlier making axis gain a lot of more MMP as well as weaken France. Not to mention that the US will be delayed for a long time. Secondly if luftwaffe moves down to southern Italy the royal navy will be in trouble outside Taranto and the british corps will be battered hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 Problems with the italian gambit are many however. First of all Italy comes into the war earlier making axis gain a lot of more MMP as well as weaken France. Not to mention that the US will be delayed for a long time. Secondly if luftwaffe moves down to southern Italy the royal navy will be in trouble outside Taranto and the british corps will be battered hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 I had this used recently. I don't like it, at all! If the Allies does it right he can not only take Bari but move 2 junk corps in to help destroy the fleet in one turn by encirclement. Boring, because if the Italians saw a fleet of warships off their coast<that were Allied,ESPECIALLY that many> War would be imminent! Not just them either!!! Hitler had to do Barbarossa in secret and many other plans also. Whenever their was the lack of surprise it costs... Neutral nations should have limited abilities to rellocate their forces within their own borders...to sum it up...there is no way you could move that many ships in secret right up under the Italians Nose...The Med-Movement needs to be tweaked properly for Italian Entry.. You allow France to buy HQs, dismember fleets, escape with it's entire Army to England<an obvious bug> I think we should have a law about the French Army even though I don't mind it's a very foolish move! Gives me plenty of time to expand fast and destroy the Hell out of the Allies for cheap worthless armies..<too expensive to mantain> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 I had this used recently. I don't like it, at all! If the Allies does it right he can not only take Bari but move 2 junk corps in to help destroy the fleet in one turn by encirclement. Boring, because if the Italians saw a fleet of warships off their coast<that were Allied,ESPECIALLY that many> War would be imminent! Not just them either!!! Hitler had to do Barbarossa in secret and many other plans also. Whenever their was the lack of surprise it costs... Neutral nations should have limited abilities to rellocate their forces within their own borders...to sum it up...there is no way you could move that many ships in secret right up under the Italians Nose...The Med-Movement needs to be tweaked properly for Italian Entry.. You allow France to buy HQs, dismember fleets, escape with it's entire Army to England<an obvious bug> I think we should have a law about the French Army even though I don't mind it's a very foolish move! Gives me plenty of time to expand fast and destroy the Hell out of the Allies for cheap worthless armies..<too expensive to mantain> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batavian Posted March 3, 2003 Author Share Posted March 3, 2003 Originally posted by Heavy Junk: I dont think I would use this tactic though, seems to go agianst the spirit of the game. Heavy Junk, I agree although I think (people, correct me if I am wrong) that it was heavily used in human vs human play in the tourny. Perhaps in the next tourny, house rules may avail us the use of this strategy. House rules may also help with regard to dominating air fleets, as JerseyJohn details in his thread "Topic: Solution for Bullying Airfleets". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batavian Posted March 3, 2003 Author Share Posted March 3, 2003 Originally posted by Heavy Junk: I dont think I would use this tactic though, seems to go agianst the spirit of the game. Heavy Junk, I agree although I think (people, correct me if I am wrong) that it was heavily used in human vs human play in the tourny. Perhaps in the next tourny, house rules may avail us the use of this strategy. House rules may also help with regard to dominating air fleets, as JerseyJohn details in his thread "Topic: Solution for Bullying Airfleets". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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