who is stronger: axis or allies ???

[docd]

Hi forum,

one question bothers me: who is stronger:

axis or allies??? I took everything except Norway, sweden, finland, US, UK, ireland as axis. Also parts of USSR: Southeast.

I destroyed 182 enemy units, but lost only 18.

But I am still loosing! How can that be? The enemy throws wave after wave into my throat, but I have to retreat.

I won every game as allies but never as axis.

What did you find out?

docd

[Fubarno]

My feelings and experiences are that the axis side has the advantage and the allies need to be played to perfection (and have some research luck) against a skilled axis opponent.

This opinion doesn't take into account the strategy for a quick knockout of Italy by France and England which can be a game killer and leads to early Axis loss. (See the recent post by Norse).

The opportunity for Germany to have 10+ advanced fighter groups ruling the skies of Europe at mid game makes allied chances problematic, in my opinion.

[Sol Invictus]

I would agree; all things being equal and assuming that no gamey strategies are used, the French amphibious blitzkrieg on Italy being the most troublesome, the Axis should prevail.

[windstarz]

the allies have won all pbem games i have been involved in. but have only played 2 people so maybe we are missing something. we have played both sides several times.

[docd]

Thank you for your opinions, but could you specify a bit more the axis strategy to win.

Which countries must fall in which sequence?

Like I said, I took nearly the whole planet, lost only 18 units vs 182 on enemy side. Attacked USSR from turkey and west after taking whole balkan in one turn!!! But I still have insufficient force to fight west and east!

It is the number of the enemy flood that gives me no chance to advance!

Sure, I know my strategy must lack, but please tell me a better one.

[terppana]

Originally posted by docd:

Thank you for your opinions, but could you specify a bit more the axis strategy to win.

*Here are some tips:

*Be ready for Russia, you should be able to kill half Russia military forces in first turn. The game will be won or lost in Russia front.

*Generally buy only air fleets

*After France falls, invest to research points and use em to air and production.

*Units experience and support from HQ is essential.

*kill enemy HQ's with air if possible.

*Give the death blow to inexperienced air units so they get more xp

*Concentrate Italian effort to air production and tech.

Which countries must fall in which sequence?

*First Poland, Denmark, Netherlands and France. After that check when Russians are joining the war. If you got time, attack both Yugoslavia and Norway simultaneously. If not take only Yugoslavia.

*After this you should take Hungary and possibly other balkan countries if you got time.

*Now gather all available units to eastern front for Russia and be sure that you will be the first to move in that front.

*Now run to the east :cool:

Attacked USSR from turkey and west after taking whole balkan in one turn!!! But I still have insufficient force to fight west and east!

*There is really no point of taking Turkey, just pile your units to western Russia.

Sure, I know my strategy must lack, but please tell me a better one.

[docd]

Thank you very much terppan, but one question remains: Do I have to attack Russia as first, to have the advantage on my side?

Or is it also possible to win if attacked by Russia first?

So I understood that I use my Italian airfleets to rush Russia also?

[Sol Invictus]

Whatever you do, dont let Russia declare war first.

[docd]

Thank you all very much!

[I/O Error]

Taking Turkey isn't a hugely bad idea if you're very fast and you grab the oil wells in Iraq. And if you can manage it being able to grab half of the production in the USSR in 2-3 turns can be a real plus. (very difficult though, human opponents as USSR love the second poorly defended front to counter-attack.)

[JayJay_H]

I played countless times as axis now, and was always able to gain total victory, even with exp bonus +2 and expert level. My first MPPs will never be used for purchasing units, until the Balkans is done i will invest everything in research. But you have to put an eye on the USSR joining status, so you have to line up enough armies and tank groups along the eastern border of Greater Germany and Russia will not declare war for enough time for you to power up your war machine (the latest date i think the asian hordes prepared for war was around october 1942). Than its time for the glorious Wehrmacht to unleash all its skills and throw down USSR as fast as possible. First step will be to conquer Odessa in the first turn of Russo-German War and to eliminate their entire line up right at the border.

[EB.]

"The game is always won or lost on the Soviet front"--this is brilliantly and exactly true.

(Applause, applause, standing applause...)

[docd]

so what combination of force do you usually use to attack russia???

[Ecthelion]

The game is always won or lost on the Soviet front"--this is brilliantly and exactly true.

I agree with that.

So to win the russians i have amassed alot of tank groups(9) and attack as late as posible(the later you attack the more tank groups you have). Try to surround the enemy units and then attack with the infantry. The tanks are so fast that you can do a lot of harm simply moving them.

Dont let the russians make a stable front line.Always go for the south.Cut russia in two and you will win.

This go well against the IA with maximum settings, against human ...each game can be different.

[JerseyJohn]

Always clobber the Soviets quickly and exploit breakthroughs with panzer units. Avoid slugging matches in extended lines and go for a decisive breakthroughs instead, even if it's for lesser goals than the fixed battle as the AI will nearly always try to stop you, extending it's own lines to the limit.

Watch out for partisans but don't go crazy chasing them. Allied corps are good to garrison rear areas.

Be careful not to lose Finland; it's a pain in the rear, literally, for the Soviets and frees a disproportionate amount of his units if it falls.

Russia, as far as I can see, is the only real problem for the Axis. Poland, Yugoslavia and France are givens, the U. K. is weak, as is the United States (argued over extensively on many sites) -- the only country that can win it for the Allies is Mother Russia!

As the Allies there's planty of nothing to do before the entry of the USSR and the U.S.. Don't lose the French airfleet, have it conduct it's interdictions from Southern England, along with the R.A.F..

If possible evacuate whatever French units you can before France falls. I always transport the French Foreign Legion and the corps in Syria to Egypt. The U.K. is so feeble little things like that matter.

Use the French fleet as cannon fodder. You don't know if you'll have any after France surrenders, so send them to the Mediteranean and use them to sink the Italian Navy; back them up with your aircraft carriers.

The Royal Navy should hunt down the two starting U-Boats and sink them right away, you can't afford to lose any MPPs to those little buggers.

Britain is desperate for MPPs. At the earliest opportunity, after France falls, conquer Syria and Iraq, drive the Italians out of Libya and take Algeria. Even then the U.K. is feeble but the war should have expanded by then, allowing some regrouping while the Hun turns East.

Even with the French airfleet in England it's still hard to stave off the Luftwaffe -- if you lose them they're very hard to replace, so if they get too weak let London burn and pull them back to Scotland -- otherwise London burns anyway and you lose your airfleets!

It's hard to believe how really weak the UK is; Ireland is a hard conquest! Incidentally, only land a corps there, because there's no harbor and what goes in, stays in.

The game really starts when Germany turns east.

I've had one game as the allies against the AI where the Axis came in with a dud, got nowhere, did nothing while Finland fell, then withdrew in response to UK & USA invasions. It didn't take any Soviet cities or resources, the Russians formed strong defensive lines from the start and that was all she wrote.

In another game a zillion obnoxious gray units overran the border and destroyed most of the Russian armies before I had a chance to move them. Two extremes -- usually it's somewhere in the middle. If the Soviets must do it they can withdraw and reorganize, but it's risky. The massive production is deceiving, Germany also produces big and already has a lot of good units with plenty of air support.

It's best to hold Soviet cities till they're about to be cut off, then operate the units out and hang on stubbornly to the next city. Put corps on the resource squares, cover everything valuable. Cities that fell easily in the real Barbarossa, like Riga and Minsk, can hold out a long time in the game. If Riga falls fight like hell to hold Lenningrad, otherwise there's a much longer front line that develops outside Moscow and suddenly it's a fight for your life.

The advice given by an earlier contributor is terrific -- build air and tank units, hold them behind your lines, then break through and cut off as many German units as you can. The AI generally gets involved with salients -- why take them head on?

When the British and Americans start making landings the AI pulls considerable units out of Russia to counter them.

The important thing to remember with Russia is not that resources are not limitless. If you give up too much space for time it can destroy you. On the other hand, you don't have to worry about losing because the Axis has taken the big three -- Lenningrad, Moscow and Stalingrad. In this game Russia fights to the bitter end -- the Axis has to capture everything before you're sent to your own favorite gulag.

I like it better that way for the Axis as well because it makes more sense -- European Russia is only half of the whole, I doubt the Soviets would have surrendered with the loss of Moscow and the other key cities, what reason would they have had? The farther east the Axis moved the more difficult further progress would have been.

Anyway, while all that is going on America is probably in the war and the UK has begun asserting itself.

Italy is a tough place to invade, especially if you start at Sicily, which you almost have to do to have air support. Advances up the toe tend to be bogged down. It's hard to move armies and HQs north in the proper order.

But being bogged down in the mud can be beneficial. The AI often over reacts and sends huge forces to defend Southern Italy. On those occasions try to land far north and along bother coasts, pinching the southern units off while you capture Rome. If some units move back from the south to block you new landings, resume the slow crawl up the toe and clobber the Hun from the sea on every occasion.

In many ways this is realistic; however, once in Italy it's difficult to break out, a quick look at the terrain tells why. As in "real life" you make your next invasion in France and one or the other has to give.

During the actual campain Kesselring was always worried about landings behind him that never took place. The Allies were disgusted by Anzio but it seems to have had the opposite effect on the Germans, who worried about such end-runs anyway. In any case, the front line in Italy can be held by a few Axis units and it isn't too difficult for him to keep decent reserves in the rear.

All of this is good. Those are units that would otherwise be slaughtering Soviet citizens. At the earliest opportunity make another landing, this time in France, and things pretty much proceed as they did historically.

Unless Germany has defeated Russia.

If the USSR is gone and you aren't actually looking at engraved road signs written in German saying "Berlin a stone's throw from this point!" you might want to consider packing everyone back on the transports and targeting something safer and more reasonable, like Costa Rica.

[ October 26, 2002, 08:42 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

[Krikke]

I had a pretty nice win with the Axis. It was my first game, difficulty was normal, with no extra experience for the computer. I had Russia on neutral, so I was nicely prepared when I attacked. But since you killed 180 units already, I guess you're fairly advanced too, and have lots of units. So it might work for you too.

Due to some lucky technology breaktroughs, I had most advanced fighters, with long range, and high level tanks. I had 6 experienced airfleets, later reinforced by 2 new ones. Lots of tanks and armies, and 5 HQ's. I forced breaktroughs attacking with my armies and kill off weakened units with my airfleets. Then I would drive my tanks trough, attacking thier air units and HQ's, and attacking weakened enemy units. I also landed 3 armies and a HQ near Leningrad. After the initial breaktrough it got quite hectic, the Soviets tended to hold on to their cities. With my armor I moved between the cities, surrounding them in German territory. After that they were easy pickings for my armies. Every time I had something stopping my advance I had my airfleets destroy it. Otherwise they were used to kill off weakened enemies. My tanks went almost straight for Moscow, stopping from time to time to let HQ's and some armies catch up. Once Moscow fell, I barely had resistance, only some mopping up.

When you are fighting in an organised frontline, compose the line of armies, directly behind them tanks and HQ, and after that the airfleets. Break trough with your tanks, surround them, and they will fall fast. You may also want to try attacking Russia from the south. A lot of their industrial power lies there, undefended.

[Alistic]

I dont know about against the computer, I've only played multiplayer. And it seems that it could really go either way, against the comp there's probably a certain way to win with either side. And thats why I dont play any games against an AI. And never will.

Seems either way though, I just duked it out for 10 hours with my buddie, and won with the allies. Just like we say in 9 ball it's all about the roll's. If you win key battles, or even get lucky with the algorithems, it's a toss up against another human.

[Zeres]

I think the Axis is stronger. But that also means that playing the A.I as the allies make you a better player.