Dunedain Posted October 13, 2002 Share Posted October 13, 2002 I love SC but does anyone else find it a bit frustrating when you win that you can't the rest of the world. Wouldnt it be brilliant if someone made an SC for the whole world, with a bit more diplomacy so that you could have the US fighting the soviets or even being allies with the germans! Not sure how you would cover the pacific, youd probably have to add a few more rules about marines and amphibious assaults. But wouldnt it be great? Id buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grotius Posted October 13, 2002 Share Posted October 13, 2002 Yep, I too would like to try a world-wide version of WWII. OK, much of the map would be kinda quiet, but who cares? The old DOS game Pacific War had some of this scope, and I loved it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl G. E. von Mannerheim Posted October 13, 2002 Share Posted October 13, 2002 HOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeres Posted October 13, 2002 Share Posted October 13, 2002 Hearts of Iron... Exactly mate!!! That will make you a happy camper ( and me too). Still SC does what it does better than any other game out there. It's not really designed to encompass Alternative history. The game mechanics are geared to fighting variations of the war the way it really did or could have happened. Scenerios like "what would have happened if Russia allied with Germany" need different and more flexible game-mechanics to work....but then your not playing a historical simulation anymore...It's kinda Apples and Oranges isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshwill Posted October 13, 2002 Share Posted October 13, 2002 Originally posted by Dunedain: I love SC but does anyone else find it a bit frustrating when you win that you can't the rest of the world. Wouldnt it be brilliant if someone made an SC for the whole world, with a bit more diplomacy so that you could have the US fighting the soviets or even being allies with the germans! Not sure how you would cover the pacific, youd probably have to add a few more rules about marines and amphibious assaults. But wouldnt it be great? Id buy it.This is slightly off topic, but I would like to see a WWIII NATO v War Pact game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les the Sarge 9-1b Posted October 13, 2002 Share Posted October 13, 2002 Hmmmm ok guess it's time for me to be me Attention, there is no Warsaw Pact. Hmm fighting a fictional battle that never happened in a time that had no fighting between two now no longer relevant entities is supposed to entertain us? I don't mind postulating wars 20 years from now, or post WW2 fighting that actually happened ie even Grenada happened (as boring as it might be to model). But nothing a game designer can make, will get me personally investing time and money in gaming Warsaw Pact vs Nato. It was only interesting to me in the 70s because at that time it was real (not to mention I was in uniform, and it seemed relevant). I am glad it never happened, and could care less for dredging up the ghosts of that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les the Sarge 9-1b Posted October 13, 2002 Share Posted October 13, 2002 Now a global based game of WW2 is interesting if you can do it correctly. Been my experience though, that modelling the Pacific is easy and modelling Europe is easy, but joining the two, now that ain't easy. I would like a game on a global scale. But I am skeptical it can be done satisfactorily after looking at the SC forums for a while. To many conflicting design wishes currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeres Posted October 13, 2002 Share Posted October 13, 2002 Like I said. They are trying to do it with HOI. And I have high hopes for it. In their simulation you can play as any country in the world during the period. It's going to have tech trees, politics, the whole shabang... The only question is whether the AI can hold up in such a huge game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshwill Posted October 13, 2002 Share Posted October 13, 2002 Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1b: Hmmmm ok guess it's time for me to be me Attention, there is no Warsaw Pact. Hmm fighting a fictional battle that never happened in a time that had no fighting between two now no longer relevant entities is supposed to entertain us? I don't mind postulating wars 20 years from now, or post WW2 fighting that actually happened ie even Grenada happened (as boring as it might be to model). But nothing a game designer can make, will get me personally investing time and money in gaming Warsaw Pact vs Nato. It was only interesting to me in the 70s because at that time it was real (not to mention I was in uniform, and it seemed relevant). I am glad it never happened, and could care less for dredging up the ghosts of that time.I am well aware that the Warsaw Pact became defunct in 1990. What I would like to see is a game where "what if" scenarios could be played out. For one, even though I am new to gaming, many of the games on the market are based in fiction. Tell me in your oppoinion, what the difference is between a "what if" scenario in SC and a possible NATO v War Pact "what if" version based on SC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les the Sarge 9-1b Posted October 13, 2002 Share Posted October 13, 2002 Difference to me is it is interesting to postulate a war in Russia (1941) started a month early, zero interest in seeing if Nato could have stopped a wave of Russian errr Warsaw Pact armour crashing through the Fulda Gap. Interesting seeing if Sealion might have worked, zero interest seeing if Warsaw Pact subs might have influenced a European war gone bad. Interesting seeing if Bomber Command could have won the Second World War, zero interest seeing if tactical nukes would have been needed in Western Germany (leading to WW3). One subject is old history we like to game, that actually happened and might have gone many ways. And the other, is something I am glad never became anything more than a bad dream I was glad to wake up from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeres Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 God there was a game that simulated a Warsaw Pact/ Nato confrontation... I used to play it on my Amiga. This is an 80's era game when the subject was still relavent. Does anyone remember what it was called?.. I bet it was Red something. The one thing I do remember about it is that it was an SSI game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimSmith Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 Zeres, I believe the game you are thinking of was called "Red Star/White Star" by SSI. TimSmith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeres Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 Ahhhhh Red Star....had to be Red... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshwill Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1b: One subject is old history we like to game, that actually happened and might have gone many ways. And the other, is something I am glad never became anything more than a bad dream I was glad to wake up from.[/QB]The Cold war is also part of history, and I agree, thank christ it didn't go hot. But as I mentioned, it is something that I would like to see in a game along the same lines as SC. Just because the doesn't appeal to you doesn't make it a bad idea, I imagine that their a number of people that would enjoy a game of this type, think RED STORM RISING for the PC. So I will except the fact that if it ever becomes available you won't be adding a copy to your collection, but I will. On another point. Do you end an SC game when Spain & Turkey enter for the Axis after Sealion has started? Because the inclusion of both these countries in any SC game is no more fictious than a NATO/WarPac game. [ October 14, 2002, 08:56 AM: Message edited by: Welshwill ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les the Sarge 9-1b Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 Hmm you mistake real world historical intrigue with modern nuclear roulette me thinks. Portugal was in the war even if a safe haven. Spain was in the war even if as a Neutral. She had just emerged from a civil war the pitted Fascists against Nationalists. Many of the tools of WW2 were tested on her soil. Turkey was wooed by the Axis and the Allies all through the war, that they stayed Neutral was perhaps good fortune. If they had picked a side, there might have never een a Cold War (for good or bad). The Cold War stayed cold thanks to weapons the likes of which no one was ready to deal with. To many imponderables. Your positions are about to be over run, you are about to see the dawn of world communism, what do you do as the Nato player? Do you release theatre nukes? Personally in a war game of that sort. Release a nuke and the game ends immediately no winner. I am glad we don't have to game out the possibility. But for a game to reflect the conditions, they can't be ignored. If they can't be ignored or included, you have a wargaming Catch 22 doncha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les the Sarge 9-1b Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 The only "Red Star/White Star I ever knew was a monstrously big game put out by SPI, but it was a board game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicKhan Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 Does "Red Lightning" ring a bell? I still have my copy in 5.25 format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arby Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1b: The only "Red Star/White Star I ever knew was a monstrously big game put out by SPI, but it was a board game.I think the game was "Red Lightning" by SSI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshwill Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1b: Hmm you mistake real world historical intrigue with modern nuclear roulette me thinks. Portugal was in the war even if a safe haven. Spain was in the war even if as a Neutral. She had just emerged from a civil war the pitted Fascists against Nationalists. Many of the tools of WW2 were tested on her soil. Turkey was wooed by the Axis and the Allies all through the war, that they stayed Neutral was perhaps good fortune. If they had picked a side, there might have never een a Cold War (for good or bad). The Cold War stayed cold thanks to weapons the likes of which no one was ready to deal with. To many imponderables. Your positions are about to be over run, you are about to see the dawn of world communism, what do you do as the Nato player? Do you release theatre nukes? Personally in a war game of that sort. Release a nuke and the game ends immediately no winner. I am glad we don't have to game out the possibility. But for a game to reflect the conditions, they can't be ignored. If they can't be ignored or included, you have a wargaming Catch 22 doncha.Historical intrigue, that is what I'm looking for. A scenario to play out what might have been just like the "what if" scenarios within SC. When Spain & Turkey join the Axis In SC they are combatant nations not neutrals, it didn't happen it is make believe, just like the game that I would like. Their were a number of occasion when the Cold war it was a little more than cold, maybe luke warm? Berlin blockade Korea Cuba Yom Kippur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeres Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 Come to think of it,The game I played on my Amiga was Red Storm Rising. Thianks for jogging my memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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