BriantheWise Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 This has probably already been posted, but I am trying to stop the Axis (mainly an idea to stop Rambo), with the Dutch gambit, that of invading Belguim and the Neatherlands. Against the computer (expert, but no pluses in experience), I can take that, by moving air forces and carriers, and even set up a defence (such that right now, there is almost a stalemate. It appears that this would preclude the Axis getting too much of a research/air force advantage (although I have lost my navy, and am losing my airforce, and my friendly allies are not interested in helping us). Against a person, is it a fair gambit? Do you think, that with the future patch, it might work? Thoughts? (So far, just playing the computer, it's kind of fun, like in advanced third reich, when the germans role a one on a two to one exploit, it turns into a bit of a stalemate).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batavian Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 When playing as the allies, I always conquer the Benelux countries. Not only does it give the Allies a much needed MRP boost, but it puts them in a much better defensive position against the inevitable German onslaught. One can also invade Germany in an attempt to take Cologne, the mine next to Cologne, and/or Munich but these attempts are almost always disasterous for the Allies. If you do choose to do this, you must have an HQ unit with you for supply. Even then, you will need a little luck. I would not recommend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potvin Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 Not gamey at all. You want gamey! ...Declare war on Denmark, so the Germans can not plunder it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ev Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 Originally posted by BriantheWise: This has probably already been posted, but I am trying to stop the Axis (mainly an idea to stop Rambo), with the Dutch gambit, that of invading Belguim and the Neatherlands. Against the computer (expert, but no pluses in experience), I can take that, by moving air forces and carriers, and even set up a defence (such that right now, there is almost a stalemate. It appears that this would preclude the Axis getting too much of a research/air force advantage (although I have lost my navy, and am losing my airforce, and my friendly allies are not interested in helping us). Against a person, is it a fair gambit? Do you think, that with the future patch, it might work? Thoughts? (So far, just playing the computer, it's kind of fun, like in advanced third reich, when the germans role a one on a two to one exploit, it turns into a bit of a stalemate)....The Axis can take the Low Countries in one week, with minimal losses, and get a lot of plunder. From a purely tactical position, the Allies are in a much stronger possition if the take over Belgium. When playing Axis, I take Belgium before 1939 is over. ...sometimes as early as the 4th turn. When do you propose to take Belgium? Can you do it in the first 3 turns of the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ev Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 Originally posted by Potvin: Not gamey at all. You want gamey! ...Declare war on Denmark, so the Germans can not plunder it.This may be gamey, but I think it would backfire on the Allies. I would guess the Germans get the Danish Corps (worth 125 MPP), right?. Plus they get a few extra turns of Danish production without having to delay the attack on France. Personally, I feel it is very important to attack France early. When playing Axis, I attack the Low Countries as early as possible after the fall of Poland. At Expert +0 this usually means the fourth or fifth turn of the game. I normally attack Denmark after I finish off France. If the allies does this move on me on the 3rd or 4th turn of the game, I benefit from many turns worth of Danish production, while still attacking Belgium and France early on in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jollyguy Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 What hasn't been mentioned is the Allies attacking minors prior to US and Rusian entry has material implications on their. I.e., US is setback at least 6 turns for each DOW. 6 x 180 = 1080. Russia probably about the same, but from that side you look at the extra turns of MPP the Axis gets to build up for Barbarossa, lets say 6 X 300, or 1800. Plus, Italy enters earlier, probabaly another 300 mpps or so. Plus, the Axis gets the corps that come along with each country, 125 mpp per. Allied DOWs against minors may work against new players who don't know what to make of it, and thus allow the Allies to buildup a thick defensive line that may or may not get breached. But against an experienced Axis player, the backloaded costs and effects to the Allies of minor DOWs prior to US and Russian are basically a disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ev Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 Originally posted by Jollyguy: What hasn't been mentioned is the Allies attacking minors prior to US and Rusian entry has material implications on their. I.e., US is setback at least 6 turns for each DOW. 6 x 180 = 1080. Russia probably about the same, but from that side you look at the extra turns of MPP the Axis gets to build up for Barbarossa, lets say 6 X 300, or 1800. Plus, Italy enters earlier, probabaly another 300 mpps or so. Plus, the Axis gets the corps that come along with each country, 125 mpp per. Allied DOWs against minors may work against new players who don't know what to make of it, and thus allow the Allies to buildup a thick defensive line that may or may not get breached. But against an experienced Axis player, the backloaded costs and effects to the Allies of minor DOWs prior to US and Russian are basically a disaster.Absolutely. The Dutch Gambit is worth it if it saves France. If you you can save France this way, try it. But it does not pay off just to extend France's agony for a couple more weeks. If I go for the French Gambit, I would probably have France occupy the capital city, so I can build a French HQ, and put a strong defense up front anchored at the Belgian capital in the North, and the Maginot in the South. Cities give you good defense. And woods are good too. So you are left with only one week spot along the line. Build a French Tank Group as soon as possible to defend this spot. Also, be ready to spend a lot of money reinforcing your French Airfleet. The Luftwaffe will make your days miserable. As an Axis player I would bomb the hell out of your French HQ. Give experience to my Air Fleets, with little loss in exchange,and cause some pretty expensive damage to the French. The British should try bombing something, whatever, to inflict casualties in the Luftwaffe, and take some preasure of the French airforce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waltero Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 Good point! I found the best way to play allies is just to sit back and wait. play it safe, don't try to get too tricky. Of course if Germany does anything off the wall then you can probly get a little tricky. There are your standard moves stick with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batavian Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 Jollyguy...your figures convinced me. My strategy was flawed. Thanks to all for the feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC27 Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 I have tried several varities of this strategy, however so far all its done is dragged out France's survival until late 1940. The key to Frances survival if it could be done is is to destroy the German air fleets, otherwise its impossible to stop the German onslaught. Because the intercption model is rather silly its better to actually attack the Luftflottes rather than to sit back and intercept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriantheWise Posted November 22, 2002 Author Share Posted November 22, 2002 Thank you for all the comments! You are right, it did set back the joining of U.S. and Russian extremely signifcantly. In the game I was playing (against the computer, mind you, not against a real person, or a Rambo), it became a slug fest. The Germans attacked me, I attacked back, used up all my navy, the Italians eventually struck through the South. The French did finally fall, with the Germans weakened, but their air force experienced (they were my downfall (kudo's to Hubert for the combined smashing of my armies through the AI). Against the computer, at +0 experience, it was a fun and useful gambit. But then again, against the computer at +0 experience, it also seems like in the long run, it's better not to try. After all, even I can beat the Axis with their +2 experience (I was very proud of that the first time - now it's easy). I thank you for the feedback. I'd like to try it against a real person, but in summary, DoW's by the allies are just to costly in turn of war readiness for the key allies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 Yes, you Allied players might as well try taking the LowCountries before I do. Why not, your defense of France is a joke. If you want to become another notch in by Axis-Championship-Belt, let me know. jon_j_rambo@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 Duplicate Entry. :eek: Will fill in with a picture, something tasteful that won't upset anyone. Please see posting below this one for comments. [The Mona Lisa should be next] [ November 23, 2002, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 Batavian's views on an Allied invasion of the Low Countries -- Agreed 100% -- playing a PBEM at the moment as Axis against Martinov using his own 1939 modified scenario. Mart' invaded the Low Countries as the Allies and it's really thrown my Axis timetable way off. That river line can be a killer; even after you push it back it's still difficult capturing Brussels, especially against determined land, sea and air defense -- though, of course, the allies pay for such tanacity in much higher attrition. A stiff diplomatic penalty for the allies invading the Low Countries would serve to keep the game historically structured, the question is whether we want to sacrifice play options to preserve historical integrity. As Rambo points out, the Low Country invasion might be the only way to keep France from being crushed outright. I lean toward the allies incurring a very heavy US entry penalty for the invasion as England and France would appear in American eyes to be as much an aggresor as Germany. Naturally, the Soviets wouldn't have been concerned one way or the other. [ November 23, 2002, 11:43 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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