2" mortar teams meele fighting?

[Amedeo]

I was recently playing a historical scenario, pitting green Canadian troops against German paratroopers.

Since I had no heavy support weapons at hand (and also owing to my horrible skills) the Fallschrimjaeger squads had not a very hard time in mowing down my men... anyway this is not the point.

A mauled Paratrooper squad, reduced to a single man, was near one of my 2" mortars (w/no ammo left) and was targeted by one of my Platoon HQs. While ducking for cover the lone German Jaeger was killed by close combat (at least according to the sounds I heard) but the only unit targeting it (and in range for a close combat) was my mortar team. So my question is: is it possible for support weapon teams that are out of ammo (and do not carry small arms in CM terms) to cause casualties in close combat?

Regards to all,

Amedeo

Disclaimer 1. I'm too lazy to set up a test scenario to find out

Disclaimer 2. I don't think this issue is covered in the manual, however even if it is, I can assure you that I read it all (maybe just forgot the relevant points).

[Maj. Battaglia]

In my experience, weapons teams have fought close combat and inflicted casualties. Of course, they usually get mobbed. Since you (presumably) had a 2:1 advantage, your mortarmen got lucky.

On paper (and as far as I can tell in reality), members of mortar teams, bazooka teams, etc., all carried rifles and/or other personal weapons. They are not modeled in CM, I suppose because then people would use them as infantry. But they can fight back in hand to hand combat.

A good web site is dedicated to Canadians in Combat Mission, by the way. It is called Canuck and well worth checking out.

[Col Deadmarsh]

I wonder if support teams fight at the same level as infantry men or worse?

[lcm1947]

I would think they fight about the same. Same training and all plus I would think that that machine gunner, bazooka man or whatever was probably or could have been a regular rifle carrying infantryman the day before.

[Gen. Sosaboski]

I had a 'zook apparently club a Platoon HQ's sole survivor to death.

[lcm1947]

Well, I myself wanted to do that many times when I was in the service. Club an officer I mean.

[Warmaker]

I had a post earlier where my dismounted StuG crew took out several support teams and ensured the survival of my StuH'42 to win the game.

In general though, don't expect your support weapon crews to hold out like some sort of war movie. More than likely, even a beat up squad can mop up numerous weapon crews simultaneously, esp. if they're elite squads. If they've got SMGs and LMGs, well, it can only end real badly for the weapon crews.

[David Aitken]

I ran a test with five PIAT teams (ten men) against a German rifle squad (nine men), and again with 2in mortars. Teams in a semicircle around the squads, range about 2m, no ammo, everyone in command from a hiding HQ with no bonuses, all in scattered trees. The melée ability of the teams seems very limited. I though as the teams surrounded the squads, even if the squad took on one team, the others would get him. Even with 'low' ammo, of course, the squad can still fire, and this upset the teams quite a bit, but didn't always take casualties even at 2m. Typical German casualties were between none and four before wiping out the teams. Experience or command bonuses made no noticable difference, and even elite teams only had a slight edge against conscript squads. I think the decisive factor is the number of men in a squad or team. Nine men in a squad will work together, whereas five two-man teams will not, giving the squads a big advantage. So teams have only a very limited ability to defend themselves.

[Stacheldraht]

I recently had a depleted German HMG team kill/wound the remaining three or so men in an American rifle squad that rushed them in a building. I guess the Germans hit the Amis over the head with the MG barrel