Boozer Posted February 11, 2001 Share Posted February 11, 2001 I'm courious what die hard player's opinios are about which engagement type is the hardest to play. I thought I read in one of these posts a month or so ago that defending an assault was the eorst... I'm looking for the biggest chalenge, what should I try to play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisl Posted February 11, 2001 Share Posted February 11, 2001 Defender in an assault. It may have improved with 1.12 though. ------------------ "If you can taste the difference between caviar on a cracker and ketchup on a Kit-Kat while blindfolded, you have not had enough aquavit to be ready for lutefisk." (stolen from some web page about lutefisk) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagdcarcajou Posted February 11, 2001 Share Posted February 11, 2001 LOL, Well, how about trying to do a Probe, as the attacker with Low quality troops against High quality defenders in damp conditions. Then, to make it extra ridiculous, give the computer AI a handicap advantage, and then take a Mechanized force for yourself while giving the AI Combined Arms. To further complicate matters, play as the French! ------------------ What the hell is a Jagdcarcajou? CM Recon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasoncawley@ameritech.net Posted February 12, 2001 Share Posted February 12, 2001 I took Jagdcarcajou's challenge idea and I heartily recommend it to everyone. I took the French with an all-Green "mechanized" force mix, against the computer's unrestricted high quality Germans. The fight was a probe, with my points set to 90% of the usual amount, the lowest of the handicap settings. I gave him 700 points, which worked out to 850 for me, with probe odds and the handicap. The weather was rain, the time was October 1944, daytime. For terrain I took farmland, moderate trees and hills. The Germans surrendered after 22 minutes; I had taken the objective at minute 20 but the last squad hung on a couple of minutes longer. I took higher overall losses in men (hardly suprising with green against crack), but his force was destroyed. My losses were 77 total with 18 KIA, 1 60mm mortar, a Jeep MG, and an M-20 knocked out. A second M-20 was immobilized. 160 men ok, score 79. He took 47 casualties, 17 KIA, plus 9 captured, and lost a Jagdpanzer IV, a mortar, and an infantry gun. 4 men ran off the map safely. From my losses, the AI earned a score of 21. There was only one gamey thing I did - I took 2 modules of 81mm mortars. It was meant to represent extra ammo. The map was fine for the defender, although as in all probes he didn't have a lot of room in front of the objective. The objective was a simple fork in a road and a couple of buildings beside it, one of them stone. My own base of operations in the center was a church just ahead of my start line, mostly masked by a set of tall pines but with views in one direction. He was atop and just over a hill, with fine reserve slope possibilities. His force was all crack, and contained the following - 1 Jgd Pz IV with skirt 1 Motorised infantry platoon 1 HMG 42 1 Schreck 1 81mm Mortar FO 1 81mm on-map mortar 1 75mm infantry gun. 2 daisy chain AT mines 1 AP mine Not a lot of infantry, is it? But fine supporting weapons and in a useful mix. I took a nearly pure infantry force, and used the vehicle points aspect of the mechanised force not to carry everyone, but to get some supporting mobile MG firepower. Specifically, my force, all green, was - 1 rifle company 1 extra rifle platoon (4 all told) 3 extra bazookas (6 all told) 2 81mm mortar FO 4 M-20 Utility Car 2 Jeep MG An "atrrition strategy" force. I had no heavy anti-armor weapons, not even the allowed M-8 or a towed gun. But I had 12 infantry squads, 9 total MGs in teams or on vehicles, 6 bazookas, and tons of mortar support from 3 on-map 60mm (~100 rounds), and 400 rounds of off-map 81mm. I tasked my platoons with different jobs. With so many commanders (6 all told), I could afford to pick and choose which one got which job. A platoon with +2 morale got the job of "point". Another with only morale and a little stealth was meant to be their flank guard, and gave a squad to the company CO for his own team These two formed the first wave in a right hook. Each brought along one bazooka, and 3 M-20s took the intervals (either side, one in the center) of this move-out group. One commander good at everything but stealth was put in charge of the "fire base" platoon, and given both MMGs and one bazooka, and one of the 81mm FOs. The best platoon leader, +1 at everything but +2 stealth, was given 2 bazookas only and put into reserve behind the fire base platoon, with the last M-20 behind their body of woods. The ungifted weapons platoon leader was put in charge of just 2 60mm mortars, which he was supposed to take foward on the same flank as the "move out" force, then halt and look "inward" from a spot beyond the ridge that masked the likely German positions. The company CO was given a mix - a single squad, the 50 cal, 1 60mm mortar, the 2nd 81mm mortar FO, and one bazooka - and sent to the church position and the woods around it to oversee the battle. Last, the 2 Jeep MGs were to scout the left flank, the one I was *not* going to turn, first, and cover it with their MGs to prevent an unexpected moves on the overcovered part of the map. This plan did not survive contact with the enemy, but it gave me a decent start. The first issue was discoverying the Jagdpanzer, which did not take long. It got 8 infantrymen all told, including 1 squad broken and halved after it panicked and ran to some scattered trees still in its LOS. Cpl Simonet is up for a Cross de Guerre for taking it out with one shot from his bazooka, after running across 80 yards of low but open ground, moving through 40 yards of tall pines, sneaking the last 20 yards of same, and then tagging it in the flank at 60 yards range. Took him between 2 and 3 minutes. This was lucky, but there were 3 different teams after the beastie and not enough German infantry to cover everything. I had more trouble with the HMG 42. Seriously, I did. Because it was shooting "crack" straight and fast, and my men were "green" brittle, any open ground in its LOS produced panic when crossed. He didn't get that many men, but he pinned lots. I also had big trouble with the 75mm infantry gun, which was very well situated. It bagged the one dead M-20, which is how I found it (Clever of me, huh? Oops). Then while I was putting 81mm on it, the green FO on that particular assignment was panicked by the aforesaid HMG and lost the fire mission. Ouch. This FO took one casualty, but lived, as I massed 4x50 cal on the nasty fella to pin him (do you know how hard it is to pin a crack unit in a foxhole in trees at 300+ yards range? Believe me, it is hard - and he had aleady had his first helping of 81mm!), and a 60mm managed to recover its wits long enough to smoke him. Meanwhile, the infantry gun was blowing up everything in sight so i just skulked everybody out of his LOS. But it might be a long wait for those mortars. The point platoon went forward instead of back, therefore. They discovered the only AP minefield on the map (oops) and lost a squad to panic (the company CO calmed them down ~5 minutes later clear back on my side of the field). The discovered German infanry, but fortunately from a flank at 200 yards, not by running into them. Finally, the point platoon, not a glorified squad, flanked the gun through a wheatfield in almost dead ground. Almost. The gun turned on them and blew up several. I gave it lots of M-20s to look at and rushed for the real dead ground - it was 150 yards away now. The point platoon still had its bazooka team, and he ran up to 30 yards away, in a hedge, and got off one round. Then the gun zero'd in and shot at him, and he ran to better cover in some woods - right on top of a half-squad trying to help him. He promptly led a shell to this group, pinning his "help". But then he recovered, the tough little bugger, and plugged that gun with his third shot from 40 yards range. This infantry gun was set up within 60 yards of the German map edge, and I took it out with a *green* zook team from the left rear - LOL. Zhukov was right. Quantity does have quality all its own. I set up my fire base to let fly at the discovered German infantry position, after expending the last of the first FO and still waiting for the other to recover. But the bear blew first. The Germans had off-board mortars too, and I discovered in with a 1/4 mission landing on the same turn as the spotting round, bunched up in the woods and green (though well led). So I told everybody to high-tail it, not monkeying around, just forget about this firebase stuff and withdraw-run 250 yards to the rear. Most of them made it, with suprisingly little loss. The HMG broke one MG team and the fools ran back into the shells - but even they lost only 1 man. Oh, they are all broken to one degree or another. But they lived. It took 3-5 minutes to put that platoon back together. The vehicle 50 cals covered the open ground in the meantime, to prevent any rush to wipe out the broken men (like the "crack" AI had reserves for that! - but I didn't know how much infantry he had or did not have). They went back later in the fight and played a decisive part in the last act, despite this near-catastrophe of being perfectly caught, bunched up in woods, by timely mortar fire. It is more important to *run* when they start landing, than anything else about quality or cover. Better troops will recover faster, which is useful. But anyone who doesn't run will not really "recover", and anyone who does, can - even greens. I finally KO'ed the last diehard on the HMG, the flankers took out the infantry gun, and soon after stumbled upon the on-map mortar and took it out as well. (They also lost one of their remaining half-squads, to the *crew* of the Jagdpanzer - LOL. "Crack" helps up close I guess). I tried rushing the German infantry too soon. I had a covered route, and sent the reserve platoon in with just a platoon and some MGs on overwatch. Regulars on regulars, it would have worked. Green on crack? I lost a dozen guys and the platoon ran away, gradually recoverying in the woods they had approached along. Not ready yet, huh? OK. I waited for the mortars. I expended 135 rounds of 81mm on the same platoon position, and used the suppression from that to move my own fire base back into position, get the reserve recovered, basically get everyone reaady to light up the same spot of ground. They fought back, being crack, but it was ridicule as they say, by this point. The supporting weapons were gone. 2 squads and the platoon HQ are in scattered trees, most in foxholes some out of them to "skulk" away from previous fire, then pinned. I run the vehicle 50s dry. The foot 50 dry. The MMGs are still firing. Two platoons are down to single digit ammo. I must have expended 20,000 rounds in real world terms at the same ~80 by 80 yard plot of ground, on tops of the 81mm. Then 8 good-order squads close in on what is left of two. Not a chance. There was plenty of tactical stuff to do, plenty of problems. The heavy weapons held me up, the supporting arty delayed me and could have hurt much much worse. But numbers and raw firepower will tell in the end. And 6 humble bazooka teams can be in a lot of places on one little map, against a small enemy force. I think the bigger green force is all-around better. If the defender had had more infantry (but keeping the off-board 81mm), then I might have had a harder time. If he had only vet quality and a bit more in the way of numbers, likewise. But if you have greens and buy infanty, and he has crack and buys shiny toys, you will have four times as many men as he does. And it is real hard to fight four times and many men, regardless of quality levels or even shiny toys. Especially when your limited numbers of men, get hit with a lot of crude that falls from the sky and goes "boom". I hope this is interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted February 13, 2001 Share Posted February 13, 2001 Originally posted by jasoncawley@ameritech.net: I took the French with an all-Green "mechanized" force mix, ... There was only one gamey thing I did - I took 2 modules of 81mm mortars. ... I took a nearly pure infantry force, and used the vehicle points aspect of the mechanised force not to carry everyone, ...So you were cheating! Using an infantry force instead of mechanised. For a mech force it'd be something like: 1 inf company 5 M3A1 half-tracks 10 M3 half-tracks + other support (No need for extra mobile MGs, I reckon...) Cheers Olle ------------------ Webmaster of Combat Mission för svensktalande, a CM site in Swedish. Norwegians, Finns, Danes and Icelanders are also welcome as members, others can still enjoy pictures and downloads. Strategy is the art of avoiding a fair fight... Detta har kånntrollerats av Majkråsofft späll-tjäcker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasoncawley@ameritech.net Posted February 13, 2001 Share Posted February 13, 2001 Oh no, it was a mech force type in CM terms all right. I stayed within the force cost limits. You couldn't buy that many halftracks anyway. It is not written anywhere that a "mech" force type has to all fit in the vehicles purchased. Some of them would really be in trucks, after all, and debus before battle. I do suggest you try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted February 13, 2001 Share Posted February 13, 2001 Try a 20 turn assault with low quality infantry on a huge map. To beef up the challenge, make it snowy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMplayer Posted February 13, 2001 Share Posted February 13, 2001 Originally posted by jasoncawley@ameritech.net: I hope this is interesting. Interesting indeed. Thanks for taking the time to describe your tactical approach in that game, and the results you achieved. regards, --Rett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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