Halftrack and Jeep Notes

[Grunto IV]

Ok, let me rattle off a couple of minor issues with the game as it stands:

Issue #1 - U.S. M3A1 versus German SPW 251/1: 43 points for the M3A1 and 52 for the SPW. This doesn't make sense within the context of the game. My understanding was that prices were based upon "combat value" and not "rarity." With that in mind, the SPW should be cheaper than the M3A1.

Another thing: I've seen the diagrams about the .50 cal versus the MG42 regarding these vehicles facing off against each other, and the .50 cal is superior, shot for shot. However, do those diagrams take into a account that the MG42 - although it doesn't penetrate as well per bullet - is firing a lot more bullets?

So I suggest either making the MG42 better against the M3A1, or lowering the cost of the SPW 251/1 so it is cheaper than the M3A1.

Issue #2 - Jeep .50 versus regular Jeep: It would be great if you brought back the transport factor for the .50 cal jeep, and made the regular jeep something like 7 or 8 points. Trucks should be 10-12 points. The reason I say all of this because of the "combat value" of these respective units; the .50 cal jeep may run out of ammo quickly, but 4 or 5 of these hitting a platoon at once can be deadly.

As it is, it is very difficult to design a U.S. Cavalry-based scenario because the jeep .50s no longer transport anything. One could use standard jeeps, but the Cavalry jeeps had mounted .30 cals as standard issue, and were often upgraded in the field. In addition, they transported mortars and personnel with mines, radios, demo charges, and rifles.

In scenarios with mixed jeeps and jeep .50s, my heart sinks a bit when clicking on a jeep with no MG, and it raises a bit when clicking on a jeep .50 with ammo remaining on board.

I guess that's just me.... =grin=

A scenario could be created with just transport jeeps, and crew-served MGs could be transported. The problem is, that even with the standard Cavalry Platoon:

6 Jeep

3 Greyhound

the scenario designer cannot represent the 6 machineguns inherent to the jeeps, and the 3 60mm mortars, plus the Platoon HQ. At best there will be 5 crew-served MGs and 3 60mm mortars, and that is with the Greyhounds transporting a unit apiece. Then other units like sharpshooters and bazookas have no place to ride.

Of course without a modelling of the "3-man Cavalry Jeep," it is "problematic" to create a Cavalry scenario. Still, when the Jeep .50s actually transported units, it was a lot easier to approximate things.

The workaround I'm using is to include 3 M3A1 halftracks instead of 6 jeeps. Then there is plenty of transport available.

thanks for your consideration,

Andy

[Michael Dorosh]

Do the American halftracks break down easier than the German ones?

There was a big issue when GI: Anvil of Victory came out. Two of the developers squared off in the General magazine, one said that the American halftrack (according to their research at the time) was basically rolling garbage because they shed tracks like crazy. The other contended that the interleaved roadwheel system on the German halftrack was a nightmare, though his argument was not as convincing.

I imagine the slab armour sides were also less effective than the sloped armour of the 251 (though would armour that thin derive much benefit from the slope?)

Also, there is the question of steering; did the German halftrack not steer with its tracks as well as the front roadwheels, whereas the American HT did not?

I suspect the point value is based on more than just the armament, but of course have absolutely no way of knowing. I am sure one of the board vets will come along to point us to the appropriate thread(s)

Really, though, how many scenarios will have halftracks facing off against each other?

[Gyrene]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Really, though, how many scenarios will have halftracks facing off against each other? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That particular type of encounter happens to me in CM games often, way more frequently than I think it likely did historically.

I for one am glad that the M3 can tackle the MG only German HT's.

Gyrene

[David Aitken]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Michael Dorosh wrote:

I suspect the point value is based on more than just the armament<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Indeed. Grunto's request regarding the prices of the M3A1 and the 251/1 pertain only to their ability to kill each other, not their all-round battlefield usefulness. An unarmed jeep may not be worth much for killing the enemy, but it is worth a lot for zipping infantry back and forth across the battlefield, and for this reason is it not cheaper. A 3in mortar at the start line is worthless, but halfway across the map where your troops are fighting, it can turn the tide of battle. A jeep makes that difference. Halftracks are primarily armoured trucks, but it so happens that the Germans put a machinegun on theirs and the Americans put a more powerful machinegun on theirs, which leads to them being used as gun platforms in CM instead of the transport they are.

[ 06-21-2001: Message edited by: David Aitken ]

[Michael Dorosh]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David Aitken:

Indeed. etc.

[ 06-21-2001: Message edited by: David Aitken ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're the one vet I thought for sure would have a thread earmarked for linkage...(!)

[David Aitken]

It's not a sufficiently contentious subject. I'm sure there have been discussions about it, but none terribly heated or extensive. I make sure to bookmark the big debates because those are the ones I can't bear to be repeatedly restaged. It's easy enough to say "jeep points no for guns, for wheels too!".