Gyrene Posted October 23, 2001 Share Posted October 23, 2001 This has always puzzled me (Well not always, but when there was nothing else to think about): How does counterbattery fire work? How could one figure out where artillery was coming from by watching impacts, or whatever they were looking for? Was this ever done in WWII, or is radar required? Gyrene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted October 23, 2001 Share Posted October 23, 2001 It certainly was done in WW2. There are lots of ways to figure out where a battery is. Crater analysis: craters of different calibres leave distinctive craters, and also fragments. From both, you can work out what size gun was firing. Also, the crater isn't a perfect circle, but an oveal oriented along the flightpath. From several targets engaged by the same battery you can triangulate where the rounds originated from. Takes time to do though. Flash ranging: Spot flashes from guns firing, and take a bearing. If several observers can get a bearing to the same flashes, again you can triangulate the location of the source. Sound ranging: Similar principle to the above, but uses more techo equipment. Lines of microphones were laid out on known bearings, and by noting the minute time differences for teh sound to arrive at different mikes, the bearings of the sources could be determined. Direct observation: either by aerial recon, or due to poor positioning by the bad guys. Educated guess work: look at a map, look at the targets being engaged by the enemy, know what the effective range is for the enemies guns, think about where you would put the guns if you were the enemy, combine all of the above to produce locations. Not terrifically accurate ... FWIW, IIRC, and all the other usual disclaimers. Regards JonS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted October 23, 2001 Share Posted October 23, 2001 What Jon said. The Canadians also set up a radar CB observation battery after Normandy, in 1944, AFAIK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.Tankersley Posted October 23, 2001 Share Posted October 23, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Germanboy: The Canadians also set up a radar CB observation battery after Normandy, in 1944, AFAIK.<hr></blockquote> The gamey bastards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted October 23, 2001 Share Posted October 23, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by L.Tankersley: The gamey bastards!<hr></blockquote> Indeed. At the beginning of the war, the Germans still used balloons. Later they decided that was a bit of a waste and got rid of that battery. German Beobachtungsabteilungen were Corps level assets I believe, and included a balloon, a sound, and a light ranging battery, as well as something you could call an FDC. To establish a position they needed at least three pieces of range data. They would then fire a spotting round, which would be observed for its fall, and then correct and FFE. Time was between 1min to 15mins to work it out. Observation posts were often shared between sound and light, and would be wired in. Standard equipment would be the SF14z, and a phone. A crew for such a post would be five guys, led by an NCO (Unteroffizier). The Abteilung was fully motorised. The posts were often built into roof-tops, or special towers would be erected - my grandfather was on one when he was a attacked by a 'Rata' (generic term for Soviet planes shooting at the ground). He says it was the fastest 20m descent he ever made. The observers also served as mobile FOOs during advance and retreat. They would also be used for rear-area partisan sweeps. All this based on the experience of one man, so a big caveat applies. If anyone has better info, I would love to hear more about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyrene Posted October 23, 2001 Author Share Posted October 23, 2001 Very nice replies, thanks. I can now sleep well at night Gyrene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellros Posted October 23, 2001 Share Posted October 23, 2001 From several reports I have read... during the siege of Khe Sanh during the Vietnam war, a Marine artillery officer went running from crater to crater with a measuring tape and slide rule, to try to get enough info to use counterbattery fire against the NVA mortars and howitzers that were constantly shelling the firebase. Modern methods include use of fire-control radar to backplot the shell's flight path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted October 23, 2001 Share Posted October 23, 2001 On a related note, it would be lovely to have counter battery capability during operations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted October 23, 2001 Share Posted October 23, 2001 you do - kill the FO, no more artillery. QED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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