Arty:Changing Target/Changing mind

[rlh1138]

OK, OK, I searched - found a lot of interesting stuff on arty, but not to my point, so.. Here's something I'd like to see implemented, wondering if anybody but me cares. I'm firing arty on sombody, or maybe I've targeted and am waiting for some turns to go by to get it coming. A new target comes along, or maybe I just notice a new one. Hmm I say - I'd like to target that instead, if it didn't take to long. But the only way to really know how long it would take is to target the new target, and see what the window says. Then if you don't like what you see there, guess what? You can't 'cancel' that new target and go back to firing or back to firing in 25 sec. or whatever you had going. You're back to first base instead. So.. I'd like to 'try out' other targets, check the time, and then chose to keep that new target or go back to what I had. Seems kind of brutal to lose what I've got, sometimes waiting 2 or 3 turns, to lose that just to check out another target. Am I alone here, too wimpy, don't understand the rigours of war, has this - god forbid - been discussed before and I missed it in my search? (Please God - don't let me offend 'them') Seems if we're trying to have some realism, this would correspond to me calling up the arty guys and saying, 'OK, you say you can give me fire in 30 more seconds on that last spot I called in, what about if I wanted it on this new spot?' Not so unreal? Anyway, any thoughts out there on this??

[Roborat]

Yeah, there are mojor problems with how arty is modelled, this is just one of them. Here's hoping that for future games, they actually consult with some gunners to repair the problems. Heavens knows there are enough of them hanging around here.

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"With cat-like tread, Upon our prey we steal;

In silence dread, Our cautious way we feel." -G&S

[Seahawk-vfa201]

There is an easy workaround. It is so easy it might have gone undetected

I have mixed feelings in revealing it because it easily goes into those grognards' little secrets.

Anyway, it allows me to do exaclty what you ask. It is enough to think of it a bit and you should reach it... it is just thre, under your nose...

[The Codfather]

There is a section in the manual (p. 88) that describes adjusting fire. It says that you can try to retarget and if the target line stays green it will be a quick response. If the target line is blue, then it will be the same as a issuing a complete new order (i.e. longer time). Apparently you can cancel this "blue" order and retain your old one by hitting the space bar. I've never got it to work for me though...

The only other way I can think of doing it and actually figuring out the time it would take is "gamey" and might even be called worse by the all the veterans out there. Unless, of course, it's how they actually do it . You save your game, scope out your new spot - if you don't like the answer, quit the scenario and restart from where you just saved it.

I really don't like the idea of doing it, but it's the only way I can think of

[Seahawk-vfa201]

Codfather you scored!.

Indeed the green tells you you are not going to lose time is retargeting: this is how you get a rolling barrage, BTW.

The blue gives you better time than black: yes, you may target even if you do not have LOS. Shells will be dispersed on a larger area.

Finally, indeed rlh has a point: arty should be allowed to pause and should allow to tell more about a new target without losing the current one. To solve it (and have a more realistic use of the arty) is to plot everything but the arty, save and do your checks, make your final choice and geneate the PBEM.

Not gamey, arty should work that way.

[David Aitken]

The Codfather wrote:

> It says that you can try to retarget and if the target line stays green it will be a quick response. If the target line is blue, then it will be the same as a issuing a complete new order (i.e. longer time).

This is correct. If you're retargeting, you can 'adjust' fire as long as the targeting line is green, which it will be within a certain radius of your original target. If it turns blue it's a whole new fire mission with the full delay. In other words, no need to 'test' new targets – just make sure you note the delay when you call in your first fire mission.

> Apparently you can cancel this "blue" order and retain your old one by hitting the space bar. I've never got it to work for me though...

You can cancel any order you're about to give with the Space Bar. Say your FO has called in a fire mission, you press T to retarget, but then change your mind, you press Space before you click to confirm that target, ie. while the targetting line is still attached to the cursor.

David

[chrisl]

There was at least one arty professional around during the beta days, and I believe there were more. The current arty is a compromise between coding simplicity, realism, and net result. The arty pros have generally come down as saying that for as much as it's abstracted, it's not too bad. BTS could model all the possible things you could do with arty, and different patterns, and time-on-target, etc, but it wouldn't add that much value to the game (except for a small number of people who would love to sit and spell their girlfriends' names in arty atop the enemy) relative to the coding effort involved. It is after all "Combat Mission," not "Arty Mission". I wouldn't be surprised if it improved a fair bit in CM2, but I don't know that they've made any public statements about it.

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"If you can taste the difference between caviar on a cracker and ketchup on a Kit-Kat while blindfolded, you have not had enough aquavit to be ready for lutefisk." (stolen from some web page about lutefisk)

[Dschugaschwili]

Originally posted by David Aitken:

You can cancel any order you're about to give with the Space Bar. Say your FO has called in a fire mission, you press T to retarget, but then change your mind, you press Space before you click to confirm that target, ie. while the targetting line is still attached to the cursor.

David

You can also press "L" before clicking the target. This changes to the LOS tool, and clicking anywhere while in LOS mode doesn't give any orders. Works fine for me.

Dschugaschwili

[Guest Germanboy]

Originally posted by Roborat:

Here's hoping that for future games, they actually consult with some gunners to repair the problems. Heavens knows there are enough of them hanging around here.

So, Bullethead is not a gunner then? While I agree that the arty model is probably the weakest of the three in the game, I still think it is pretty damn good. As was said before, you get a very good indication of how long retargetting will take through the colours. If someone here knows that in WW2 it actually worked another more precise way, feel free to post the info, I am very much interested.

Somehow I find it hard to imagine conversations like this though:

FOO: 'Can we just hold the barrage for a moment, I would like to have you calculate how long it would take to get move it over there, to yonder hill.'

Fire control officer: 'Sure, that will be a 35 sec delay, made up of 28 for me to calculate, and 7 for rejigging the tubes, unfortunately Jones is not in today, his math is so much better than mine and it would be 13.5 secs faster'

FOO: 'Uh, in that case, there is that other hill, over there'

FCO: '49.5 secs'

FOO: 'Hmm, dunno, can't we make it faster than that?'

FCO: 'If you were to take a barrage onto the village, I could offer you 23secs, and would throw in a battery of 81mm mortars'

FOO: 'Deal'

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Andreas

Der Kessel

Home of „Die Sturmgruppe“; Scenario Design Group for Combat Mission.