V1.1 A MAJOR BUG ???

[kipanderson]

Hi,

I realise that I am in a minority on this one, often seem to be, but I still believe the new rotating hull tweak means tanks are easier to kill. I have done a number of tests; a more long-winded account of one test is covered in the thread “of rotating hulls, Panthers and CM2”.

What it all comes down to is that tanks now fight more in the “style of assault-guns”. As such they suffer heavier losses when in attack, especially in open terrain.

If the main threat is at 12 o’clock, i.e. they are advancing to take an objective at 12 o’clock, and an AT gun opens up from 10 o’clock they turn their hulls all the way to face 10 o’clock. (The one qualification to this is that they do pause the rotation at 11 o’clock in the hope of rapidly killing the AT gun with fire. If this fails, they soon rotate all the way to 10 o’clock.) At this point they can be slaughtered by other AT threats, having exposed their flanks.

For me the core of the problem is that it is beyond the capabilities of the AI to judge where the “main threat” comes from. I.e. where it is likely that the greatest number of anti-armour weapons will be positioned. Reading books such as Ken Tout’s Tank! I get the impression that, just like the human player in CM, tankers did generally have an idea of the direction of the main threat. Simply due to the lay of the land. Of course, sometimes tankers, and CM players, get it wrong and suffer as a result.

My view is that tanks should be reasonably “sticky” in pointing their hulls in the direction they have been ordered to advance. Remember the human player can intervene every 60 seconds to order the hull rotated, if the need arises.

Also note Rune’s uncle states they rotated to 30 degrees, i.e. to 11 o’clock if an AT gun was at 10 o’clock. Very different from rotating all the way to face 10 o’clock. My reading to the TigerFibel, and the Panther manual I have seen, make plain that German tankers were taught just that. That at 30 degrees to a threat they were just as well protected as when directly facing the threat, in the case of the Tiger, better. (Due to the extreme angle against the side armour.)

If Steve and Charles do not wish to make the hull rotation “sticky” to the direction of advance have they considered “moderating” hull rotation in tanks? By this I mean rotating to 11 o’clock but not necessarily all the way to 10 o’clock.

All the best,

Kip.

[Annalist]

I don't think the AI should try to determine the main threat. But they should be easily able to do it by comparing the kill percentage just like they do for the hit. In the calc phase, when the computer determines a tank will come under fire it knows the kill chance of the attacker...therefore the tank crew would know that the firefly is a much bigger threat to them than the 57mm AT gun. The tank should rotate to put its best armor to the main threat and the command should attempt to suppress the secondary threat with the cupola MG. Of course, not if the chicken is buttoned up. However, there is good reason and a lot of historical evidence for using the passing shot where the tank passes a target and pivots the turret to engage in passing. For quick vehicles its a good way to get a flanking shot on an opponent.

What I think SHOULD happen, is that only the tanks with slow traverse rates should pivot. Maybe that's the solution, I didn't read all the posts in this thread.